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Another Newbie needs help

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Re: Another Newbie needs help

Postby magnaton » Fri Aug 10, 2018 11:14 am

player1 wrote:Magnaton and John,
I was looking today at midi interfaces and audio interfaces. From lefranc22's post, using an audio interface means I would not need a midi interface. Can I buy a audio interface and use that to do the experimentation magnaton lined out?


Yes, several of the audio interfaces recommended for HW include a MIDI port so a single cable to the computer can handle both audio and MIDI. There was one thread a while back that mentioned where a user stated his interface unit was maxed out with all x audio channels active plus the MIDI port in use. In this setup the interface became overtaxed with dropped notes and latency playing fast passages with heavy registration. The simple solution was to add a separate MIDI interface. So 2 separate computer connections one for MIDI the other for audio.

Your profile doesn't state where you are located, but here is a simple, inexpensive MIDI interface I used for years with out issue just to get started.
https://www.amazon.com/VicTsing-Cable-Converter-Keyboard-Adapter/dp/B00ACGMOA6/ref=sr_1_17?s=musical-instruments&ie=UTF8&qid=1533913840&sr=1-17&keywords=Midi+interface
Other more robust interfaces would be the Roland UM-One, iConnectivity Mio, or M-Audio Midisport Uno all under $40 US.

player1 wrote:Magnaton and John,
Regarding multiple channels, I would like to buy the equipment now so if I chose to go that way in the future, I will not need more equipment. Need I get a more sophisticated audio interface to do that or will a E-MU usb interface be enough? While we are at it, should i go for a unit with FireWire? Several on the "Requirements" list have that in the title. I need some understanding here.


Modern audio interfaces are now USB or Thunderbolt. Years ago, FireWire was the only viable option as USB-1 was too slow. USB-2 (and now USB-3) offers the bandwidth and speed that meets or surpasses FireWire so this standard (IEEE 1394) is kind of being phased out. Some interfaces still offer that port for backwards compatibility. Many Macs had a FireWire port as standard for years.

Keep in mind that audio interfaces are marketed for the home studio or professional recording studio market. Their specifications and details explain how they work with live recording & playback and the quality of their inputs. With HW we are only concerned with "output" quality and number of output ports or potential number of output channels. The advice here is to search the forum for "audio interface" and read past discussions, take note of makes and models and comments. If you are looking to be 'future proof' then I'd recommend a unit with at least 8 to 10 channels. Before making a purchase, read the owner's manual and focus on the true number of "independent" output channels. A couple of models piggy back the the main channels or channels 3 & 4 to the headphone jack. If you never intent to use headphones then this point is moot. If you do, its nice to know that the headphone jack is independent of any output channels.

Danny B.
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Re: Another Newbie needs help

Postby organtechnology » Fri Aug 10, 2018 2:05 pm

magnaton wrote:
player1 wrote:Magnaton and John,
I was looking today at midi interfaces and audio interfaces. From lefranc22's post, using an audio interface means I would not need a midi interface. Can I buy a audio interface and use that to do the experimentation magnaton lined out?


Yes, several of the audio interfaces recommended for HW include a MIDI port so a single cable to the computer can handle both audio and MIDI. There was one thread a while back that mentioned where a user stated his interface unit was maxed out with all x audio channels active plus the MIDI port in use. In this setup the interface became overtaxed with dropped notes and latency playing fast passages with heavy registration. The simple solution was to add a separate MIDI interface. So 2 separate computer connections one for MIDI the other for audio.

Your profile doesn't state where you are located, but here is a simple, inexpensive MIDI interface I used for years with out issue just to get started.
https://www.amazon.com/VicTsing-Cable-Converter-Keyboard-Adapter/dp/B00ACGMOA6/ref=sr_1_17?s=musical-instruments&ie=UTF8&qid=1533913840&sr=1-17&keywords=Midi+interface
Other more robust interfaces would be the Roland UM-One, iConnectivity Mio, or M-Audio Midisport Uno all under $40 US.

player1 wrote:Magnaton and John,
Regarding multiple channels, I would like to buy the equipment now so if I chose to go that way in the future, I will not need more equipment. Need I get a more sophisticated audio interface to do that or will a E-MU usb interface be enough? While we are at it, should i go for a unit with FireWire? Several on the "Requirements" list have that in the title. I need some understanding here.


Modern audio interfaces are now USB or Thunderbolt. Years ago, FireWire was the only viable option as USB-1 was too slow. USB-2 (and now USB-3) offers the bandwidth and speed that meets or surpasses FireWire so this standard (IEEE 1394) is kind of being phased out. Some interfaces still offer that port for backwards compatibility. Many Macs had a FireWire port as standard for years.

Keep in mind that audio interfaces are marketed for the home studio or professional recording studio market. Their specifications and details explain how they work with live recording & playback and the quality of their inputs. With HW we are only concerned with "output" quality and number of output ports or potential number of output channels. The advice here is to search the forum for "audio interface" and read past discussions, take note of makes and models and comments. If you are looking to be 'future proof' then I'd recommend a unit with at least 8 to 10 channels. Before making a purchase, read the owner's manual and focus on the true number of "independent" output channels. A couple of models piggy back the the main channels or channels 3 & 4 to the headphone jack. If you never intent to use headphones then this point is moot. If you do, its nice to know that the headphone jack is independent of any output channels.

Danny B.


Hi Danny,
The UNO has insufficient buffer memory and does not work well in today's VPOs
The Roland UM-ONE is no longer made but may still be available and works well.
The MIO seems to work in most cases using a desktop but is flaky with laptops.
The chines version of the UNO is suspect due to it being Chinese :)

Just my 2-cents

Thomas
Complete VPO systems powered by Hauptwerk™. Real Wood Consoles, PC or MAC Computer Sound Modules, Audio for Home or Church.
info (at) organtechnology.com http://www.organtechnology.com

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Re: Another Newbie needs help

Postby Antoni Scott » Sun Aug 12, 2018 8:43 am

Hello Player 1:
I re-read your post and wanted to add to the list of constructive responses. My personal experience with Hauptwerk help has been mixed since there is so much to absorb. The least help was from Apple itself. The general opinion is that Mac computers " out of the box" are the best. I have to agree with this since I tried to go "cheap" with a HP computer and just frustrated myself. The problems were with the audio system. Glitches and dropouts were terrible. If you don't know how to "configure" a PC, stick with a Mac. There is a good reason why they are more expensive.

When I became more familiar with Hauptwerk and computers,I experimented with building a custom Hauptwerk organ. In my previous life I was very knowledgeable about how a pipe organ worked having built and re-built many , but this new computer organ had me baffled. After my experience with PC's I ended up with a 2011 MacMini, a gem of a computer, which back then was upgradable (today Mac's are not upgradable as before). The one I had was a quad-core with 16 GB RAM and powered an organ, the Zwolle, with 66 stops, although it was not in Surround).

Jon, from I Build Macs, built me a 2008 MacPro dual quad core, which I used as a back-up, for just $800, after a very negative experience with Apple (they wouldn't look at my computer because it was over five years old, but were falling over themselves to sell me a new one for $12,000). My backup had minimal memory and one hard drive. I could easily switch the 32 GB and four hard drives from my original MacPro, if need be.

If you do decide to use a PC based computer I would strongly suggest going with OrganTechnology or Francois Ratte in Canada. Don't risk anything else. They basically offer a Hauptwerk ready "plug 'n play" computer for novices like us.

If you decide to build one for yourself, Classic Midi in Canada will offer digital Fatar keyboards and a 32 note pedalboard. Its a quick way, but expensive, to get an organ. I started with three keyboards. I already had a 32 note pedalboard which I had converted to MIDI in a previous keyboard setup by using a scanning board from Wersi. It was easier than I thought.
Later on I decided to retrofit a real pipe organ console because the original set up looked very crude but 100% functional. I was able to locate a pipe organ console for $400.

For more information I created a Youtube video which explains how I created my Hauptwerk organ. If you are interested you can go to Youtube and type in, Hauptwerk Organ Pipe Organ Retrofit. Hope it helps.

Antoni
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Re: Another Newbie needs help

Postby player1 » Sun Aug 12, 2018 7:37 pm

Antoni,

Thankyou for coming back with additional comments. If I can, let me tell you where I am with figuring this all out. First of all, I am familiar with your You Tube video and have viewed it a few times but only using my computer speaker which I can't hear real well. I have acquired some headphones and will go back and watch it again when I can hear it better. I came to the conclusion and In my first post stated that I was ONLY going to consider using a MAC for the reasons you outlined. I also have a large Johannus 3 manual organ Rembrandt 3000 (2000 model) so I won't need keyboards or speakers. I have located a Roland UM-One Mk2 USM Midi unit at Fry's Electronics so this week will probably pick one up and do the free download to my PC Laptop as suggested above and see what I can do.

I have not yet contacted I Build Computers but might in the future if I can't settle on one on eBay of which there are many. I am listening through my headphones to Contrabombarde and really like the sound of stereo so I might not go with multiple channels to start. Like most here, I need to use my funds towards the most efficient way to go. The Summer Sale currently running will be a big help and I will certainly use that for Advanced HW and the CC Notre Dame Metz sample set.

Everyone here has been most helpful and big thanks to all who have contributed. I have lined up two HW installations to visit within the next two weeks so I am sure to learn from seeing those.

I will be back with more questions I am sure.

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