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Tremulant from the 1965 Marcussen & Søn (Netherlands),

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Tremulant from the 1965 Marcussen & Søn (Netherlands),

Postby elec » Mon Aug 28, 2006 9:19 am

I use Hauptwerk V2 ,the studio editie ,and I import the1965 Marcussen & Søn (Netherlands), St. Stefanuschurch HW1 organ in HW2.
The tremulants are very fast in frequentie and I will get them slower
but in the menu General settings \General options\Audio Engine I get the
frequentie not slower
When I Buy the Concert Edition , is it than possible to make the tremulants
slower ?

Greeting PleunDoolaard ,Holland
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Postby 3dOrganist » Mon Aug 28, 2006 11:04 am

I've always liked this sample set, but I am concerned about V2 support. Have you asked them about this? (I just sent a query to Ariaan Hoogendijk myself.)

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Postby elec » Mon Aug 28, 2006 11:20 am

3dOrganist wrote:I've always liked this sample set, but I am concerned about V2 support. Have you asked them about this? (I just sent a query to Ariaan Hoogendijk myself.)

Mark


If you get an answer from Ariaan ,will you tell me over this ??

Pleun Doolaard,Holland
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Postby Marco » Mon Aug 28, 2006 11:41 am

I had emailed Ariaan about this a few months ago (I still haven't gotten around to ordering this set, and I was inquiring if I should just wait for the v2 version instead) and as far as I understand he is working on a v2 enhancement but it's not going to happen in the very near future.

The 'strange tremulants' seems to happen in every v1 organ imported in HW2, I had it in my Erlich as well (while the v2 Erlich is of course perfect).
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Postby mdyde » Mon Aug 28, 2006 12:22 pm

When I Buy the Concert Edition , is it than possible to make the tremulants
slower ?


Hello Pleun,

The tremulant speed is defined in the v1 organ definition file itself. There is no user voicing adjustment to allow the speed of a tremulant to be adjusted at present, but you can edit the v1 organ definition file to adjust the rate, and then re-import it if you wish.

Also in the Concert Edition you can adjust the depths of the aspects of the tremulant modulation for each pipe or rank individually (pitch, amplitude and harmonic content).

The 'strange tremulants' seems to happen in every v1 organ imported in HW2, I had it in my Erlich as well (while the v2 Erlich is of course perfect).


Hello Marco,

Can you explain exactly what you mean by this and email me a recorded clip if you think there some sort of genuine problem? I'm not aware of any problems with the tremulants for imported v1 sample sets. The rate and depths are specified in the v1 organ definition files, which the import process uses. Of course, the results don't sound exactly identical to the results in v1, which only used a simply sine wave to modulate amplitude, but I would say they are much better.

Martin.
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Postby elec » Mon Aug 28, 2006 12:22 pm

Marco wrote:I had emailed Ariaan about this a few months ago (I still haven't gotten around to ordering this set, and I was inquiring if I should just wait for the v2 version instead) and as far as I understand he is working on a v2 enhancement but it's not going to happen in the very near future.

The 'strange tremulants' seems to happen in every v1 organ imported in HW2, I had it in my Erlich as well (while the v2 Erlich is of course perfect).


Will I ask Martin Dyde over this problem ,when I wil buy the Concert version of Hauptwerk to solve the fast tremulant frequentie??
This is perhaps imposseble to solve this problem.
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Postby 3dOrganist » Mon Aug 28, 2006 12:26 pm

When I look at his web site, I have to wonder about how active this project is. Two things stand out: (1) the site (in English at least) does not appear to have been updated since 2004; (2) there is no statement about HW2 support.

I really like the "presence" this sample set has (at least as I can determine from the demos), the range of voices, and certainly the pricing.

On the subject of the tremulant, I would guess that there is some sort of default model in HW2 that gives this result. I don't know what it would take to alter the model.

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Postby Marco » Mon Aug 28, 2006 12:28 pm

mdyde wrote:Can you explain exactly what you mean by this and email me a recorded clip if you think there some sort of genuine problem?


Hey Martin

I have to see if I still have the v1 version installed (since I received the v2 upgrade some time ago). If I remember correctly the imported v1's tremulant was very 'bleating' (somebody in another thread said 'like a lamb', which does seem like what I remember it sounding like), the v2 one is/was fine.

I'll have a look one of these evenings and will try to get you a sample asap.
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Postby mdyde » Mon Aug 28, 2006 1:06 pm

Hello Mark,

When I look at his web site, I have to wonder about how active this project is. Two things stand out: (1) the site (in English at least) does not appear to have been updated since 2004; (2) there is no statement about HW2 support.


I did speak to Ariaan about it a few months ago, and he is very busy with other non organ-related work at the moment, but he told me that he does have a Hauptwerk v2 port of the sample set which he will release later in the year when he has some time.

On the subject of the tremulant, I would guess that there is some sort of default model in HW2 that gives this result. I don't know what it would take to alter the model.


Since v1 organ definition files don't have all of the necessary parameters to control v2's tremulant model fully, basic defaults are used for the remainder, which sound better with some ranks than others. A native v2 port (or the CODM) can always give much better results. The main aim of the v1 import facility is to allow the remaining v1 sample sets to be used in v2 (and to sound better than in v1) whilst awaiting native v2 ports.

Unless there are actually any specific bugs or problems with the v1 import mechanism, there are no intentions to develop it further since it is for backward compatibility only. Development of any new sample sets or organ definitions should use the native v2 formats (full or CODM). I appreciate that some people find the full v2 organ definition format too complex, and the CODM format too simple and inflexible, which we'll attempt to address by making the CODM much more flexible, whilst still keeping it very easy to use, in the near future.

Best regards,
Martin.
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Postby 3dOrganist » Mon Aug 28, 2006 4:44 pm

I did speak to Ariaan about it a few months ago, and he is very busy with other non organ-related work at the moment, but he told me that he does have a Hauptwerk v2 port of the sample set which he will release later in the year when he has some time.

It was quite encouraging to get a same-day e-mail response, which indicated...
A HW2 version will be released within a few months.

I think in this case where Hauptwerk is clearly not Ariaan's primary source of income, this is a perfectly acceptable response.

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Postby Jon Hammond » Mon Aug 28, 2006 8:24 pm

Regarding tremulants and the Moerdyjk organ, the best baroque tremulant I have heard on a virtual organ is on the Moerdyjk organ, but on the soundfonts demo samples. If a HW2 version is offered with this liquid sounding tremulant, my purchase is guaranteed.
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Postby elec » Wed Aug 30, 2006 1:08 pm

Marco wrote:I had emailed Ariaan about this a few months ago (I still haven't gotten around to ordering this set, and I was inquiring if I should just wait for the v2 version instead) and as far as I understand he is working on a v2 enhancement but it's not going to happen in the very near future.

The 'strange tremulants' seems to happen in every v1 organ imported in HW2, I had it in my Erlich as well (while the v2 Erlich is of course perfect).


Marco
I have Martin mailed over this problem and he give me a good hint to make the tremulants slower.
When you will get this solution I will it mail to you.

My email adress is pleundoolaard@hetnet,.nl

Best regards Pleun Doolaard.
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An HW1 ODF for the Marcussen Organ

Postby CHRIS 037 » Thu Aug 31, 2006 12:55 pm

Hello Fellow Hauptwerkians,

Until the HW2 version of the Moerdijk Organ is available, you may be interested in the HW1 ODF file I have put together for it. I have used it to import the organ into HW2.11 with wonderful results.

I have made up my own graphic layout which organizes the stops differently and makes them easier to use for me.

I have used all the 28 ranks of the Marcussen Organ and also have added five stops from the FBR organ from Jonathan Orwig. This was mainly to fill in otherwise empty spaces in the console display, and the FBR reeds do really add to the organ’s sound.

I have placed the HW1 ODF on my website for download, along with an EXCEL layout of how I spread the 33 stops out to my eight stereo audio channels for the HW2 import (2 x M-Audio 1010LT cards).

Additional info is also on the webpage:

http://www.leochristopherson.com/Marcussen_Organ.htm

Be well All,

Leo Chris.

PS Martin, FYI, I also notice very large ups and downs in pipe volumes as I go up the keyboard when using HW1 imported organs and tremulants. I find the Trems unusable.
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Postby mdyde » Thu Aug 31, 2006 1:15 pm

Hello Leo,

PS Martin, FYI, I also notice very large ups and downs in pipe volumes as I go up the keyboard when using HW1 imported organs and tremulants. I find the Trems unusable.


If you think there is a problem with the Hauptwerk v1 import, i.e. that it sounds less good in some respect than the same sample set loaded into v1 itself, please load the organ with 'Design tools | Load organ (with design options), tick 'reset voicing' and 'reset general organ options ...' and 'reset rank audio output routing' and send me a brief recording demonstrating it, made from Hauptwerk's built-in recording system using a specified rank on the imported v1 St. Anne's (so that I can compare it easily) and also a copy of the following files (ZIPped), so that I can check your settings:

[Hauptwerk installation folder]\HauptwerkUserData\Config-StandAlone\Config.Hauptwerk.xml

[Hauptwerk installation folder]\HauptwerkUserData\Logs-StandAlone\Log.Hauptwerk.html

I'm not aware of any problems with the import process, i.e. ways in which an organ sounds less good imported into v2 than it did running in v1. If there are any genuine problems, I will investigate them and attempt to improve them.

Thanks,
Martin.
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Working on it. . .

Postby CHRIS 037 » Thu Aug 31, 2006 2:13 pm

Hi Martin,

I'll see about doing as you ask by this weekend, I hope.

I've only imported a few HW1 -> HW2 organs so far. My 48-rank custom organ and the Marcussen Organ, mainly. Both have shown the same trem problems. It was especially terrible in the middle keyboard octave. Notes down around middle C were faded to near inaudibility while those at the top of that octave came in so loudly that it was scary! Those really loud notes would not quit when the key was released, but continued on getting louder and louder, and then finally stoped after about 2-3 seconds. The same thing happened on stops on each keyboard with the same keys (different keyboards, different trems, of course). This reminds me of the original problem with some stops on the Virginia TO.

I was going to try setting the randomizing features under the General Organ Settings, but I haven't tried that yet.

BTW I also wanted to ask: Do those randomizing setting (for example random tuning) work on imports? I don't seem to see any change when I mess with those on imports.

Leo Chris.
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