Expressive enclosures Can this be done?

Create an enclosed rank or ranks inside of a divisional enclosure? In other words double expression.

For instance, a few solo stops in an enclosure (controlled by a separate expression pedal) with this "enclosure" inside of the swell division. The swell division would control all the swell division pipe work as well as the separately (above) enclosed solo stops.

There is a real pipe organ (17 rank 3M symphonic) built by Schoenstein that does this. It is a 2 division organ with 3 expression pedals. That is Great (this Great division is enclosed), main Swell expression pedal, and the 3rd expr pedal controlling a small enclosure for 3 ranks. Personally, I think that's pretty cool. Would enjoy having this organ sample set.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qhLbcKeVQK8&app=desktop

Rgds,
Ed

I know this isn't directly related to Hauptwerk but it is quite informative.This presentation is esp impressive listening with a (good) headset. BTW, I recently learned the modern generation esp gamers refer to a really good item such as a really good headset as being "sick".

You will see and hear how the stops fit into tonal families and then combine to create a musical color palette that the organist uses to “orchestrate” the music. The Schoenstein Double Expression system is illustrated. Other organ design principles that can make a small instrument sound like a much larger symphonic organ are explored.

Extracts used in this Tonal Demonstration are:
Opening: Elgar - Organ Sonata in G (slow mvt)
4:00 Whitlock - Scherzo from Five Short Pieces
4:20 Pierné - Cantilène from Trios Pieces
5:20 & 5:52 Haydn - Clock Pieces
6:30 Brahms - Es ist ein' ros' entsprungen
7:28 thru 9:28 Bach - O Mensch, bewein
10:48 Elgar - Nimrod
13:13 Wagner - Prelude to Act 3 from Die Meistersinger
14:15 Widor - Adagio from Symphony 5
14:57 Pierné - Cantilène from Trios Pieces
16:02 Elgar - Nimrod
19:03 & 20:02 Guilmant - Sonata 8 in A major (4th Mvt)
23:09 & 24:05 Elgar - Sea Pictures
24:46 Bach - Prelude in A major (BWV 536)
25:05 Daquin - Noel Grand jeu et duo
25:45 Bonnet - Lamento from Douze Pièces
26:45 Wagner - Prelude to Act I from Tristan und Isolde
28:00 Bairstow - Prelude on Veni Emmanuel
28:46 Wagner - Siegfried
29:17 Bach - Aria from Suite No.3
30:12 Franck - Cantabile
30:42 Hollins - A Trumpet Minuet
31:05 Bliss - A Royal Fanfare
31:45 Hymn - Old 100th
33:50 Elgar - Nimrod

Here is a link to the specification list:
http://www.schoenstein.com/pdfs/153_Christ_&_St_Stephens_NY_3.pdf

Rgds,
Ed

[mdyde]

Create an enclosed rank or ranks inside of a divisional enclosure? In other words double expression.

For instance, a few solo stops in an enclosure (controlled by a separate expression pedal) with this "enclosure" inside of the swell division. The swell division would control all the swell division pipe work as well as the separately (above) enclosed solo stops.

There is a real pipe organ (17 rank 3M symphonic) built by Schoenstein that does this. It is a 2 division organ with 3 expression pedals. That is Great (this Great division is enclosed), main Swell expression pedal, and the 3rd expr pedal controlling a small enclosure for 3 ranks. Personally, I think that's pretty cool. Would enjoy having this organ sample set.

Hello Ed,

Yes -- it would technically be possible for a sample set producer to create enclosures within enclosures within Hauptwerk (although the Custom Organ Design Module doesn't provide that functionality).

Kinda was afraid that would be the case.

Sure would be nice, tho. Any chance of that feature being added to a future revision?

Rgds,
Ed

[mdyde]

Hello Ed,

A sample set producer *can* implement such a feature in a full-format organ definition.

You mean you also want that feature specifically in the CODM? If so, I don't think we'd really want to implement that, I'm afraid -- the CODM is designed to be reasonably manageable and understandable, so that people can create their own organ definitions reasonably easily, whilst being sufficiently flexible to cover the functionality found in 99-ish% of real organs. It doesn't aim to include ever last conceivable feature (to keep it manageable and understandable). The 'full-format' organ definition format is there for that purpose, and a sample set producer could already do it with that.

Understand, Thanks

Rgds,
Ed

I think something like this could be done within a DAW such as Reaper. The idea would be to route the ranks already within the swell chamber to separate channels in Reaper, then apply to those channels an Effect (or two effects) which could reduce volume and brightness simultaneously. Reaper's MIDI Learn facility would be used to get it to respond to the appropriate swell pedal.

The concept of multiple expressive enclosures in the USA goes back to 1900. Audsley designed a three manual organ, installed in a church in Hoboken, New Jersey, in which each division had multiple expressive chambers. I personally examined this organ back in the early 1970's and was impressed with the ingenious flexibility of this instrument. For instance, the reeds (Trumpet 16', 8' and 4') had their own chamber located next to another chamber for the remainder of the stops in that division. The level of flexibility was enormous.