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How important is Touch Sensitive Keyboard?

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profeluisegarcia

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How important is Touch Sensitive Keyboard?

PostFri Apr 28, 2017 4:09 pm

Hello all¡
Real pipe organ key usually has just on-off action (leaving aside the process of opening -attack- and closing -release- of the pipe valve). Do really is useful to use in sampled organs Touch Sensitive Keyboards?

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Luis
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telemanr

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Re: How important is Touch Sensitive Keyboard?

PostFri Apr 28, 2017 5:04 pm

Only if the sample set of a tracker organ has been set up to take advantage of the control of the pipe valves. At best it is subtle effect.
Rob Enns
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Re: How important is Touch Sensitive Keyboard?

PostSat Apr 29, 2017 4:34 am

Hello Luis,

To add to Rob's reply, there are several types of 'touch sensitivity' (key velocity, channel aftertouch, and polyphonic/key aftertouch). Velocity-sensitivity is the most common one, found on most MIDI keyboards, and it's velocity-sensitivity that would potentially be usable for tracker key attack control in sample sets that support it (which I think are mainly from Sonus Paradisi).

Key velocity or aftertouch can also be used to control 2nd touch in theatre organ sample sets.
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Re: How important is Touch Sensitive Keyboard?

PostSat Apr 29, 2017 3:18 pm

I am aware that many organists prefer a tracker action since they believe that they can control the attack of the note. I feel certain that the engineers who designed the "air switching" had no such aim in view.
However, there is no reason why touch sensitivity cannot be incorporated in a new organ. I could imagine that various levels of key velocity could add extra voicing. After touch could control the swell shutters on a manual. However, I am not a good enough organist to make positive suggestions. I guess new facilities have appeared over the years to meet a musical performance need.
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profeluisegarcia

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Re: How important is Touch Sensitive Keyboard?

PostSat Apr 29, 2017 3:34 pm

Thanks folks, now I understand that TSK may control velocity, and it is good for fast passages, but does it also modify the output VOLUMEN of the pipe (as it happens with digital pianos) ?
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Re: How important is Touch Sensitive Keyboard?

PostSat Apr 29, 2017 4:14 pm

It will make no difference unless the sample set is of a tracker organ and was created with with that control implemented. In that case the only thing it does is allow a pipe to get its air slowly if the keyboard key is gently pressed which affects the speech of the pipe but the volume of the maximum sound will only be what the pipe volume is when the the air passage is fully open. But it won't go literally from soft to loud. Pipes which aren't getting full air generally just don't speak correctly. In any case I believe it is only an approximation of an actual tracker player varying the keyboard touch.
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organtechnology

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Re: How important is Touch Sensitive Keyboard?

PostSat Apr 29, 2017 5:38 pm

My understanding is that the velocity value of the struck key only affects the first part of the pipe sound. In some organ sample sets, the rapidity of the valve opening is controlled by the velocity value of the struck note. Once the pipe has passed to the full volume part of the sample the velocity usually will have no effect on the sound. As the valve will close by its own timing the will be no change in the end of the pipe sample. There are exceptions however;

Hauptwerk Manual pag. 286: Some virtual instruments are able to respond to key velocity. Hauptwerk provides a tracker action model which enables key velocity to be used to adjust the initial speech of pipes, or to select pipe samples dynamically amongst several different-velocity samples


This is unlike a real mechanical pipe organ where the opening of the valve is controlled by the position of the key and not the velocity and the closing of the valve can also be affected by how quickly the player removes pressure from the key. (i.e. legato playing).

The main use for velocity sensitive keyboards in electronic organs is the playing of MIDI pianos or other instruments which require a velocity value of the note to provide expression. The best example that comes to mind is Pierre Fracalanza and his Garritan Steinway/Paramount 450 organ setup.
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Re: How important is Touch Sensitive Keyboard?

PostSat Apr 29, 2017 8:46 pm

You beat me to IT. Thanks for the reminder, Thomas. That's a perfect example of touch sensitivity not only of the keyboard, but by the artist as well. :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQX_ow_5OzM

Rgds,
Ed
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Re: How important is Touch Sensitive Keyboard?

PostSun Apr 30, 2017 8:29 am

I bought my three keyboards from Classic Midi in Canada back in 2008. Initially I really did not care for the "feel" which was, I think, reported as having a "semi" tracker feel to them. However, I quickly got used to them and prefer them to the touch I experience in other keyboards. I think back in the mid 1960's when Rodgers was reality going strong, they had an optional tracker touch which was basically electro-magnets under each key that could be turned off. This was about as close to the real tracker experience as I have ever experienced.
How important is Touch-Sensitivity to me. Very important. When playing rapid passages, accidentally touched notes do not sound because you did not depress they key sufficiently hard enough. With a tracker, it is a little more decisive.

Of course, with Hauptwerk things have become much more complicated. The software, I think, has been written to recognize a rapidly depressed note vs a slower depressed note. I'm not sure is a velocity sensitive keyboard is therefore necessary. I am speaking without any knowledge which is a a dangerous thing. All I know is that my sample sets and keyboards all add up to a very pleasurable playing experience so I do not concern myself with how its done.
I am still impressed and amazed when I take a single stop, such as a reed or even a Diapason, and rapidly attack the notes and then slowly attack the notes and listen to the realism. Couple that with the wind modeling and we have a hell of a realistic sound.
Antoni
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organtechnology

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Re: How important is Touch Sensitive Keyboard?

PostTue May 02, 2017 8:56 am

engrssc wrote:You beat me to IT. Thanks for the reminder, Thomas. That's a perfect example of touch sensitivity not only of the keyboard, but by the artist as well. :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQX_ow_5OzM

Rgds,
Ed


Did you notice that that piece has almost 600,000 views! Wow.

Thomas
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engrssc

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Re: How important is Touch Sensitive Keyboard?

PostTue May 02, 2017 2:39 pm

With the overhead cam, watching over Pierre's shoulder, his videos are very instructive as well.

Rgds,
Ed

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