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Who knows the highest frequency in Hz needed?

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Re: Who knows the highest frequency in Hz needed?

Postby mdyde » Wed Sep 20, 2017 4:47 am

Assuming that the sample sets have been created properly in the first place (with an anti-aliasing filter applied at an appropriate frequency for their sample rate, allowing sufficient headroom for real-time pitch-shifting for tremulants, etc.), the only (very slight) benefits that you might potentially get from using higher sample-rate samples currently would be that:

1. The anti-aliasing filter(s) (applied during sample creation and possibly also by the audio interface) might possibly cause less disturbance (phase changes, frequency response ripple, etc.) on frequencies that are actually within the audible range (i.e. towards the upper end of 20 kHz). However, sufficiently high-quality audio editing software (anti-aliasing filters) used correctly during sample set creation, together with a sufficiently high-quality audio interface for reproduction, should avoid those issues anyway.

2. Real-time interpolation distortions would be a bit less at higher sample rates. We plan to add options for higher-order real-time interpolations in the future anyway, which would give people the choice of sacrificing polyphony (quite a lot of polyphony) for lower distortions if they preferred it.

Hence (provided that the samples were created properly, and that you're using a high-quality audio interface), there might be a small potential benefit (in terms of lower distortions) to 96 kHz (at the expense of a quite a lot of polyphony), although in the longer-term additional options within Hauptwerk should largely eliminate that sample rate benefit (but still at the expense of quite a lot of polyphony, if lower distortion is desired).
Best regards,
Martin.

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Re: Who knows the highest frequency in Hz needed?

Postby PeterD » Mon Sep 17, 2018 7:36 am

organtechnology wrote:You must mean 20 kilo Hertz (20,000 Hz) because a sub-woofer can go above 20Hz.

engrssc wrote:
josq wrote:So I would say: go up to 20Hz, any decent speaker can do that. But it makes no sense to go much above this value, because you cannot hear it.


Some animals (our dog) can so can mice. :roll:

Rgds,
Ed

I
Hi Ed
Re your remarks about how high a frequency animals can hear .. I'm also wondering how low a frequency they can perceive. My cat regularly enters the acoustic labyrinth of my Autograph speakers where the bass emits and that goes down below 30Hz ( and LOUD) and emerges looking pleased with herself so don't quite know if they perceive sound that low . Speakers re-engined with Beyma drivers
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You can also see she is an aspirational registrant

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Re: Who knows the highest frequency in Hz needed?

Postby RichardW » Mon Sep 17, 2018 12:13 pm

PeterD wrote:You can also see she is an aspirational registrant


Apologies, OT, but could not resist: Kitten on the Keys.
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Re: Who knows the highest frequency in Hz needed?

Postby murph » Mon Sep 17, 2018 3:06 pm

[/quote]
I
Hi Ed
Re your remarks about how high a frequency animals can hear .. I'm also wondering how low a frequency they can perceive. My cat regularly enters the acoustic labyrinth of my Autograph speakers where the bass emits and that goes down below 30Hz ( and LOUD) and emerges looking pleased with herself so don't quite know if they perceive sound that low . Speakers re-engined with Beyma drivers
Image

Image

You can also see she is an aspirational registrant

Image

Images are very easily loaded from an Imgur account - you can re-size, share and upload very simply and free

Peter[/quote]

I presume they are 15cx's. Why change?
I much prefer the Tannoy HPD's to the Beyma. (Or the mon gold/silvers)
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Re: Who knows the highest frequency in Hz needed?

Postby TheOrganDoc » Tue Sep 18, 2018 11:35 pm

Please check the usable high end output of your Organ speaker cabinets,
they rarely output over 16 KH at listenable levels ! :roll:
How far into a church or Hall do you you expect to hear those highs ? ? ? :roll:
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Re: Who knows the highest frequency in Hz needed?

Postby PeterD » Wed Sep 19, 2018 5:54 am

Hi Richard

Apologies, OT, but could not resist: Kitten on the Keys.


Very good !... but that is a fairly strange sample set...... using a 331 as front end.. the author says it's detuned, well no arguments there !!

Hi Murph

I presume they are 15cx's. Why change?
I much prefer the Tannoy HPD's to the Beyma. (Or the mon gold/silvers)


Well I'm not sure whether HPD's would quite cut it alongside Beyma's particularly as organ speakers. I first heard corner Autographs, but the smaller version with Gold drivers, and I was blown away with the sound. I acquired the cabinets which had been built relatively recently to Autograph plans (which are easily obtainable) - but these were built with marine ply, heavy duty bracing and modern epoxy bonding and foam fillers, resulting in the cabinets weighing in at approaching 100Kgs each... much, much stiffer and thus able to take a more powerful and modern driver like the 15XA38Nd. .. (of course the apertures in the cabinet which had previously Tannoy golds fitted weren't quite exact so thanks to GrahamH's skills with his router we got a perfect fit.) I'm certainly not the first to put Beyma's in Tannoy cabinets, but the result is surprisingly good. I've had the Tannoy crowd round and even they said the results were comparable or perhaps even better... they all liked the top end. Elegant and compelling though the Tannoy's are they are (IMHO) just a touch soft in the mid-range and thus not ideal for the organ, and the Beyma's produce an absolutely earth shaking but completely clean bass particularly when they are sited in a corner as GRF intended. I guess eventually its rather like the choice between owning a Jaguar XK 120 and an F -type

Problems is they would dwarf the average large refrigerator and they do need to be in a large room - that doesn't make them entirely domestically acceptable - so they only come out on high days and holidays. The intention is to convert the garage into a studio but that's as ever some way away.......

Hi Mel
Please check the usable high end output of your Organ speaker cabinets


I'm probably not the best one to judge .. after 35 years of jet flying and associated turbine whine my high end perception is probably severely eroded.. but I don't really feel I am missing anything... not sure 20kHz would add anything to my enjoyment of music.

Regards to all

Peter
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Re: Who knows the highest frequency in Hz needed?

Postby Jan Loosman » Wed Sep 19, 2018 6:37 am

Hello Peter

I Iistened many many years to 2 Kef RDM 2 speakers with on top 2 Tannoy St 50 supertweeters.
Altough the Kefs could easily reach 18000hz (_2db) adding the supertweeters improved the sound a lot.
Giving more sparkle to brass instruments, organ reeds etc.
The biggest advantage however was that they give more space and openess to the sound.
I experimented many times by detaching the super tweeters, but the improvement was always obvious and not marginal.


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Re: Who knows the highest frequency in Hz needed?

Postby TheOrganDoc » Wed Sep 19, 2018 4:49 pm

My hearing is still hypersensitive, after many years of organ tuning, especially, Reeds ! ! !

When flying, I "always" wear noise canceling headphones, now.

"While flying, Can pilots make use of them?" Mel


TheOrganDoc wrote:Please check the usable high end output of your Organ speaker cabinets,
they rarely output over 16 KH at listenable levels ! :roll:
How far into a church or Hall do you you expect to hear those highs ? ? ? :roll:
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Re: Who knows the highest frequency in Hz needed?

Postby PeterD » Thu Sep 20, 2018 6:03 am

Hi Jan

I hadn't really heard about the improvement super-tweeters can bring - quite how that works where super-high frequencies can enhance the bass is a bit beyond my pay-grade. There seems to be a very wide range of prices - but not unusual for High -Fi. I rather like this reasoning for the increase in detail that can result

From the Townshend site

http://www.townshendaudio.com/supertweeters/

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I know of of one HW set-up which uses a linear array with ribbon tweeters which gives excellent results - perhaps in the same way - - the downside of large cabinets and dual concentric drivers is that although the " presence" is excellent - it can lack detail. The guy who sold me my Tannoy boxes had decided that Quad ESL's were better than Tannoy Gold 15's - so perhaps its a way forward
.
I was looking at upgrading my old AKG headphones which go up to 20K.- I see the newer ones go up to close to 40K - so perhaps that's a possibility

Thanks Jan..you've given me food for thought

Peter
Last edited by PeterD on Thu Sep 20, 2018 6:35 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Who knows the highest frequency in Hz needed?

Postby PeterD » Thu Sep 20, 2018 6:14 am

Hi Mel
When flying, I "always" wear noise canceling headphones, now.

"While flying, Can pilots make use of them?" Mel


Yes - they are quite normal now in the airline world. Not when I started in the mid -sixties- we always flew with one earphone on/one off. I think when we got noise -cancelers it was obligatory to have both ears covered and use intercom full time - bit too late for me. I tried playing a 1' tib on the Paramount 450 and I can just hear it at the top of its range ( if middle C is C3 then I can just hear B above that )

I am intrigued about the detail that supertweeters can give to lower frequencies - see my post above

Best

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Re: Who knows the highest frequency in Hz needed?

Postby sjkartchner » Thu Sep 20, 2018 10:29 am

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