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Anyone attend Frankfurt Musikmesse? AND:What is HW's future?

A discussion forum for anything even marginally Hauptwerk-related.

Anyone attend Frankfurt Musikmesse? AND:What is HW's future?

Postby adri » Tue Apr 17, 2018 6:39 am

If so, care to share anything exciting?

Did you see any Hauptwerk setups?

I know who was there, but apparently, Brett Milan or Martin Dyde, i.e. Hauptwerk itself, was not there.

Is this or is this not the show for organ related products to show up at?

There were apparently no digital organ makers there, no HW MIDI console makers, and only one sample set maker was there with a setup, which was met with enthusiasm.

The bottom line question is this:

What is being done by both Hauptwerk and sample set makers to promote this great software and get many more people on board? Things are very quiet these days, so it seems.

We must expand the user base, otherwise we will face a slow death. Diminished activity on this forum also worries me greatly.

Yet, we have am absolutely fantastic product, that deserves to grow also fantastically. Martin Dyde is a big time genius!

Some competitors are coming out with organs, but they truly sound horrible, have limited user interfaces, and come nowhere near to what HW is offering. And I wasn't talking about the one you might be thinking of. I am talking about organs that play on software like Kontakt Player, etc.

It would be better if we brought those people on board and get them to offer their products through Hauptwerk. They are trying to reinvent the wheel, with very bad results, I must add! Once they know about HW, they will see that Martin's platform is way, way, way superior!
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Re: Anyone attend Frankfurt Musikmesse? AND:What is HW's fut

Postby dhm » Tue Apr 17, 2018 5:39 pm

I went to Frankfurt first as a visitor in 2006, then in 2007-2008 on Hoffrichter’s stand.
In each of those years the aisles got wider and the number of digital organ builders fewer.
I heard many complaints that the noise from “entertainment organs” in the same hall was deafening; so-called “soundproof” cabins, such as we used, were useless. The management allegedly ignored the complaints.
So, within the next couple of years, all the organ dealers pulled out and, so far as I know, never returned.
Douglas Henn-Macrae
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Re: Anyone attend Frankfurt Musikmesse? AND:What is HW's fut

Postby tf11972 » Wed Apr 18, 2018 12:32 am

I visited the Musikmesse in Frankfurt last year and was very disappointed. Only one dealer presented Hauptwerk-setups, but there were nearly no keyboard instruments in the hall. In my eyes Frankfurt has no future, so I look forward to visit the Musikmesse in Ried, Austria, in autumn.
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Re: Anyone attend Frankfurt Musikmesse? AND:What is HW's fut

Postby mrkniz » Wed Apr 18, 2018 12:00 pm

I, too, would like to express my concern about the future of Hauptwerk. I notice that Hauptwerk will not be among the exhibitions at the AGO convention is Kansas City. For years I have read the forum faithfully with my morning coffee, but now some topics go for several days with no new posts.

I’m especially concerned at this time because my church, St. Mary’s in Sparta, NJ has to do something about the organ before too long. We have been told it needs over $100,000 worth of work.

The organ is a 3-manual 1930 Austin which was purchased from a church in Maine in 1973. Like many organs from this era, it’s tubby, has no upper work to speak of, but the church got it for $13,000 total (Including disassembly, transportation, a stop at the Austin organ factory for some refurbishing, and installation at St. Mary’s). The congregation is thrilled to have a pipe organ, not “that electronic junk”.

The installation is horrible. The console and Swell are in the balcony along with the [people] choir, but the Great, Choir, and Pedal are in a chamber on the left side of the chancel—some 70 feet away. The acoustics are good.

Of course, my inclination is to suggest Hauptwerk, both because of its quality sound, and because it’s relatively inexpensive. But I must say, with all due respect to some of the members of this forum who have built Hauptwerk organs for their churches, I have reservations.

1. What happens some years down the road when, say, an interface fails, and no current replacement is compatible with the old computer. Do both have to be replaced? It’s generally agreed that all speakers be of the same brand, but what happens in time when a woofer or tweeter blows, and that model isn’t available any more. Should all the speakers have to be replaced?

2. What happens when the person who built the organ no longer plays at a given church? Can a new organist fix a problem? In some ways, once the organ is properly voiced and configured, a high school computer geek should be able to keep it working, but that’s”ify”. Would the church entrust such a responsibility to one so young? And would the “geek” know enough not to mess with voicing or configuration

3. Most importantly, what happens (and please forgive me even saying this) when Martin and/or Brett are no longer with us for whatever reason? Will Hauptwerk go by the wayside, or is provision being made for that eventuality?

When a church invests in an organ, the assumption is that it will last and be trouble-free for many years. I personally could not recommend a Hauptwerk solution without making the church fully aware of these concerns.

In no way is this a put-down of Hauptwerk. Other than a pipe organ costing in the hundreds of thousands of dollars, Hauptwerk is the best sounding alternative. And even if the church could afford such a pipe organ, I would insist that Hauptwerk be an add-on.

I’m 78 years old; I would not trust my hearing at this point to voice a Hauptwerk organ; but my wife and I have agreed to give a substantial amount of money towards the project, but only if what the committee decides meets with my approval.

I do hope other people will join in this discussion.
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Re: Anyone attend Frankfurt Musikmesse? AND:What is HW's fut

Postby brooke.benfield » Wed Apr 18, 2018 2:45 pm

mrkniz;

I think you have covered the positive and negative issues of a church HW installation very well and I have nothing to add or take away.

We ran into one of the situations you brought up when the Mac decided it would begin rebooting at random times. We ended up with a new PC because the cost of a new Mac and the fact that it broke compatibility with the existing 72 channel audio system eliminated it from consideration.

Most certainly a church should be thoroughly advised of the advantages and disadvantages of all possible solutions. They all have drawbacks. Some congregations see an organ as an appliance and that the music/sound it makes is of secondary importance.

Let us know how things progress for you.
Brooke Benfield
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Portland OR
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Re: Anyone attend Frankfurt Musikmesse? AND:What is HW's fut

Postby adri » Wed Apr 18, 2018 4:42 pm

Shall we stay on topic?

I also feel that HW church installations are risky, and that the main users of HW do so in the comfort of their homes.

I don't understand why HW is not going to the AGO convention this year.

The lone sample set maker who was at the Musikmesse this month told me that his setup was well visited and that those who tried out his organ samples were quite enthusiastic.

Perhaps others should follow suit next time?

I hope that HW can keep on representing and presenting itself at any important public event. After all, repetition is key to name recognition in advertisement.
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Re: Anyone attend Frankfurt Musikmesse? AND:What is HW's fut

Postby Jan Loosman » Thu Apr 19, 2018 12:44 pm

[quote="adri"]Shall we stay on topic?

I also feel that HW church installations are risky, and that the main users of HW do so in the comfort of their homes/quote]

https://www.mixtuur.com/portfolio-item/ ... -den-haag/

This organ is installed in our church in the Hague. It is manufactured and installed by Mixtuur.
So far everyone, the organists and church members are thrilled with the result. Often after the service the church members ask the organist which sampleset he used today.
There is already a concert planned from a famous dutch organist.
It is not the same as a real church organ but the result is very good and it comes close.

Regards Jan
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Re: Anyone attend Frankfurt Musikmesse? AND:What is HW's fut

Postby UndaMaris » Fri Apr 27, 2018 7:06 pm

A Hauptwerk only setup is fine for home practice, but for a church setup I would always recommend buying a digital organ and using that to control Hauptwerk. If something goes wrong during a service, the organist can then just resort to the digital organ. Imagine the computer crashes during a hymn - just forget Hauptwerk, and you might miss only a couple of bars. You can’t expect all organists to be knowledgeable about or interested in the technicalities of Hauptwerk, computers and software.

I don’t think there is any need to worry about the future of Hauptwerk. After all, there must be a large number of companies worldwide with a stake in its future, both software and hardware.

As far as Hauptwerk Forum is concerned I personally find it interesting and useful. However, some posts and topics must appear offputting and even incomprehensible to many people. It would help if people posting would make it clear to everyone what their post is about, not just to a very few people who are in the know. Some threads begin, as it were, in medias res with reference to things using only acronyms which mean nothing to all but very experienced users. Someone who starts a new thread surely has the responsibility to ensure that most users of the Forum can understand what they are talking about.
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Re: Anyone attend Frankfurt Musikmesse? AND:What is HW's fut

Postby engrssc » Sat Apr 28, 2018 9:42 pm

UndaMaris wrote:If something goes wrong during a service, the organist can then just resort to the digital organ. Imagine the computer crashes during a hymn - just forget Hauptwerk, and you might miss only a couple of bars.


Curious as to how exactly do you switch from H/W to the digital?

Rgds,
Ed
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Re: Anyone attend Frankfurt Musikmesse? AND:What is HW's fut

Postby ludu » Sun Apr 29, 2018 6:42 am

Using HW with a digital organ, you have 2 possibilities:
—you set up the midi of your organ to ‘local off’, or
—you turn the audio volume to zero.
You just have to restore one of those 2 settings and your digital organ is ready to replace HW again.
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Re: Anyone attend Frankfurt Musikmesse? AND:What is HW's fut

Postby engrssc » Sun Apr 29, 2018 9:08 am

ludu wrote:Using HW with a digital organ, you have 2 possibilities:
—you set up the midi of your organ to ‘local off’, or
—you turn the audio volume to zero.
You just have to restore one of those 2 settings and your digital organ is ready to replace HW again.


And "miss only a couple of bars.".

All of the above actions in 2 or 3 seconds? I don't think that's possible without some switching setup.

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Re: Anyone attend Frankfurt Musikmesse? AND:What is HW's fut

Postby sonar11 » Tue May 01, 2018 9:07 am

The bigger question is why is your computer crashing? :( I would not use windows in a church, but os/x on original apple hardware should be as stable as a rock. If you insist on using windows then there are things you can do to make it more stable as well, such as using "workstation class" computers from the likes of HP or Dell (be prepared to pay for quality computer hardware), and disabling all un-needed services.

Also, churches can and should be accepting of technical difficulties. Pipe organs can "go down" very easy as well (stuck magnet for example). Losing an organ in the middle of the service should not be a regular occurrence, but neither should it be the end of the world, in my opinion.
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Re: Anyone attend Frankfurt Musikmesse? AND:What is HW's fut

Postby dhm » Tue May 01, 2018 9:24 am

Windows in a church installation can, and should, work - and there are companies that build turnkey Hauptwerk-based organs for churches with Windows PCs inside.
Obviously it depends on who builds it, with what components, how much the PC builder knows about Hauptwerk, and how the PC is configured. Mac is not the only way.
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Re: Anyone attend Frankfurt Musikmesse? AND:What is HW's fut

Postby sonar11 » Tue May 01, 2018 5:57 pm

dhm wrote: Mac is not the only way.


Nope it isn't, but it's the better OS of the two, by far; the audio layer alone is much better, but the whole OS as a rule is more stable and designed for audio/video production. In addition, it appears much audio hardware simply works better on OS/X instead of windows; I can name two, both MOTU and Focusrite, for a start, where their products are better supported on OS/X. The MOTU drivers for windows are atrocious, though the focusrite is better in that regard.
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Re: Anyone attend Frankfurt Musikmesse? AND:What is HW's fut

Postby dhm » Tue May 01, 2018 6:16 pm

Please correct me if I'm wrong , but my understanding is that:
- Many Macs nowadays don't have a CD/DVD drive, and very few USB ports.
- That obviously makes it difficult to load new sample-sets, and save or move diagnostic and backup files (since an internet connection is highly unlikely in a church organ installation).
- Many Hauptwerkians have had trouble with touchscreen drivers on recent-model Macs.
- Yes, the on-board sound in a Mac may be better for HW than that on a Windows PC motherboard, but since a church installation will almost certainly need more than one stereo output channel, an extra (multi-channel) audio interface would be necessary in any case, irrespective of which OS is being used.
- A Mac will cost much more (perhaps twice as much) than a PC of similar specification.
- Mac OS restricts the amount of on-board RAM that can be used for any one program (e.g. HW) at a time.
(It used to be about two-thirds, now improved to c.80% in HW4.) No such restriction in Windows.

Am I missing something?
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