Will personal sales of encrypted ver 4 sets be permitted?

That's one thing that struck me which I haven't seen mentioned before. Will MDA support the personal sale of a ver 4 set from one person to another? My understanding is they won't, they will not support the USB hasp after a certain date.

[M. Qualley]

Hello!

Short answer is no. You are more than welcome to sell your V4 license but we don't offer support. It has never been a company policy.

Good question though!

Thanks,
Michelle

Hello!

Short answer is no. You are more than welcome to sell your V4 license but we don't offer support. It has never been a company policy.

Good question though!

Thanks,
Michelle

Thanks for the response, but it's not that simple. If I have an encrypted set, I can sell that set to another person, but that person can't play the sample unless/until MDA removes the license from my key and puts it on their key.

So, since you are no longer processing ver 4 licenses, that effectively means that nobody running ver 4, can every purchase and use an encrypted set ever again.

Do you see the problem with that? Up till now, MDA has supported the transfer of licenses from one person to another.

The problem is that suddenly our usage of ver 4 is "frozen". None of us ver 4 users can ever install and play new/used encrypted sets ever again. That means, you are removing functionality for no reason other than "this is our policy now". That is not fair treatment of your customers.

Can you upgrade them to V, then sell them?
Just asking, I really don’t know

MDA has said they will continue to process dongle requests through 3/31/2020. Not clear if that's for new sample sets (from suppliers who continue to sell them) only, or if transfers are also included.

But of course, if you upgrade to V5 and migrate your sets to V5, then it should be even easier to sell/transfer those V versions to another V5 user.

If you don't upgrade, at some point you will simply be stuck ..

If you don't upgrade, at some point you will simply be stuck ..

Yes. Thank you, that is exactly the point. MDA is FORCING us to upgrade, otherwise we will be unable to use our software in the future, the way we could when we originally purchased it.

So, our version of HW ver 4, has a reduction in features based purely on a corporate policy. There is nothing that would otherwise prevent a valid HW 4 user from purchasing HW 4 encrypted sets, other than this inappropriate decision by MDA to prevent us from doing so.

This decision is indefensible. Most users may not care if they plan to upgrade anyways, but that doesn't take away from the immorality of the decision.

And, this is why I'm constantly harping against encryption and subscription and any device or method that takes control out of the hands of the purchaser. It will always hurt you (the customer) in the end, and the sooner we all wake up to it the better.

This decision is indefensible. Most users may not care if they plan to upgrade anyways, but that doesn't take away from the immorality of the decision.

And above that, it's against the law, at least in the EU, where customers have the legal right to sell any purchased software with a perpetual license. The producer is legally forbidden to hinder this. A dongle is such a hindrance, which means that in case a producer chooses to use such a dongle, he is legally obliged to facilitate license transfers from one dongle to another for as long as these licenses are valid. Perpetually, that is.

And above that, it's against the law, at least in the EU, where customers have the legal right to sell any purchased software with a perpetual license. The producer is legally forbidden to hinder this. A dongle is such a hindrance, which means that in case a producer chooses to use such a dongle, he is legally obliged to facilitate license transfers from one dongle to another for as long as these licenses are valid. Perpetually, that is.

That is my understanding of the current state of EU law, too. This applies irrespective of where the sample set supplier is based - if a first sale is made to an EU resident it is subject to EU law.

It is the sample set supplier's perpetual responsibiity to ensure that new subsequent owners can continue to use the product in the same way as the first owner. If a supplier chooses to use technical means to protect any rights (and this is implicitly encouraged in EU law) they are obliged to continue to facilitate transfers to all future owners. If the technical means becomes obsolete and cannot be used by the susequent owners they must provide an alternative means of access. Free iLok accounts and dongles or a decrypted version in this case. They must also provide the same access to websites, downloads etc that the original owner would have enjoyed.

Nothing in the licence conditions can preclude this, and attempting to do so can make it an "unfair" consumer contract with legal sanctions in some countries.

Since this obligation is apparently unlimited in time or number of subsequent owners this is actually a legally rather onerous and poytentially quite expensive liability for suppliers to take on. I have never understood why sample set suppliers would voluntarily do so.

Of course this applies to Hauptwerk itself as much as sample sets. If the dongle becomes obsolete for any reason and prevents licensed EU first-sale or subsequent owners accessing the software MDA would be legally obliged to offer alternative access to the HW4 software, for ever.

- Adrian.

And above that, it's against the law, at least in the EU, where customers have the legal right to sell any purchased software with a perpetual license. The producer is legally forbidden to hinder this. A dongle is such a hindrance, which means that in case a producer chooses to use such a dongle, he is legally obliged to facilitate license transfers from one dongle to another for as long as these licenses are valid. Perpetually, that is.

That is my understanding of the current state of EU law, too. This applies irrespective of where the sample set supplier is based - if a first sale is made to an EU resident it is subject to EU law.

It is the sample set supplier's perpetual responsibiity to ensure that new subsequent owners can continue to use the product in the same way as the first owner. If a supplier chooses to use technical means to protect any rights (and this is implicitly encouraged in EU law) they are obliged to continue to facilitate transfers to all future owners. If the technical means becomes obsolete and cannot be used by the susequent owners they must provide an alternative means of access. Free iLok accounts and dongles or a decrypted version in this case. They must also provide the same access to websites, downloads etc that the original owner would have enjoyed.

Nothing in the licence conditions can preclude this, and attempting to do so can make it an "unfair" consumer contract with legal sanctions in some countries.

Since this obligation is apparently unlimited in time or number of subsequent owners this is actually a legally rather onerous and poytentially quite expensive liability for suppliers to take on. I have never understood why sample set suppliers would voluntarily do so.

Of course this applies to Hauptwerk itself as much as sample sets. If the dongle becomes obsolete for any reason and prevents licensed EU first-sale or subsequent owners accessing the software MDA would be legally obliged to offer alternative access to the HW4 software, for ever.

- Adrian.

This is potentially of the highest importance for those of us who refuse for the time being to leave v.4 but who are worried about their dongle. That dongle being the one thing they cannot back up.