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Hauptwerk VI - paid update after 11 months?

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engrssc

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Re: Hauptwerk VI - paid update after 11 months?

PostThu Nov 19, 2020 6:21 pm

It isn't the 99 bucks, but rather the insensitively poor way it was presented..Introducing V5 :roll: all over again. As, if you don't like it, you know what you can do about it. I'm not suggesting what anyone else can do or think, that's their business. I'm out.

Ed
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sesquialtera

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Re: Hauptwerk VI - paid update after 11 months?

PostFri Nov 20, 2020 2:54 am

2020 hit artists all over the world very hard...

Yes, 100% true.
This update and way of thinking that customers will pay more and more is truely indecent.
99$ ... what for ? Is it for keeping real organs alive and sounding worldwide ?
I'm still with HW 4, happy with it and will go elsewhere if one day my dongle dies.
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DomD

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Re: Hauptwerk VI - paid update after 11 months?

PostFri Nov 20, 2020 3:33 am

MDA has always the worst management strategy......They didn't learned anything from the last 11 months ? I know it's business, but being only considered as a cash machine is indecent. Next update in 6 months ? 99$ again ? Two updates a year,.... will it be enough in the future ?
Are they so in distress that they need so much money..... is it a proof that HW5 was a commercial disaster for MDA, for producers..... and customers ?
Are the improvements of this 5.1 version so significant ? Could it be akin to forced sale ? Is it planned obsolescence ?
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162_Ranks

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Re: Hauptwerk VI - paid update after 11 months?

PostFri Nov 20, 2020 11:47 am

/rant on

"So much money". $99 bucks a user times a not that large user base needs to pay enough for HW team to live. I'm in software myself and I must admit I find the prevalent attitude that software should be nearly free very frustrating as it devalues the massive amount of work that is needed to make it good and keep it fresh as technology changes.

If $99 is too much how much does an annual piano tuning cost?

/rant off, sorry for/thanks for listening

Brad
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Purator

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Re: Hauptwerk VI - paid update after 11 months?

PostFri Nov 20, 2020 12:38 pm

Brad, you are entirely missing the point.

There are two aspects here, let's just imagine a car.

1) You buy the car and when you bought it there was this very weird thing. Whenever there were more than three people in the car it wouldn't start. So, to start it with passengers first everybody had to get out, you start the car, and everybody gets back in. Sounds annoying, doesn't it? So you would just give the car back until they fix that bug? Oh, too bad, the car was not sold, it was licensed, and as you already sat in the car you used it, so you can't give it back. Yeah, you were able to test it before, but honestly, who invites a bunch of friends to test a car.

But here are the good news: the car company has fixed the bug and you can get a free update to your car so it now starts with all your friends inside.

This is, more or less, the step from 5.0.0 to 5.0.1. The same way someone would expect a car to work I expect software to work. And if you think that expecting bugfixes to be free is a bad attitude you should really start to rethink that.

2) You have that car, but there is this other thing: Once a friend of yours sat on a spot, they can't easily use another shot. First the friend who originally called shotgun has to sit next to you, then has to get out of the car, and then another friend can use that spot. This is, well, not a bug itself, but oh boy it is annoying. Also, if you want to use the lights of your car you have a little display and buttons, and you have to scroll through all the options using the tiny display to find the light configuration you want to use. Not a bug, but just a very bad design choice.

But here are the good news! There is an upgrade kit for your car, it has no hardware, just a little software update that removes those annoying things. And it only is $99!

This is, more or less, the step from 5.0.1 to 6.0.0. If a car manufacturer had designed parts of the car badly I would expect them to fix this because it should not have been like this in the first place.

And to quote you directly:
as it devalues the massive amount of work that is needed to make it good and keep it fresh as technology changes.

The update from V to VI is not for keeping it fresh with changing technology. And one can say that it makes parts of the software good this is just because those parts were really bad beforehand. They did not got worse over time, they were bad from the beginning.
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162_Ranks

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Re: Hauptwerk VI - paid update after 11 months?

PostFri Nov 20, 2020 1:02 pm

I guess the devs could work for free for a year to make up for the fact that they made some design mistakes but I don't think you are going to get many takers for that job...
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Purator

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Re: Hauptwerk VI - paid update after 11 months?

PostFri Nov 20, 2020 1:14 pm

162_Ranks wrote:I guess the devs could work for free for a year to make up for the fact that they made some design mistakes but I don't think you are going to get many takers for that job...

So, your plumber has finished his work, comes to you and says: "I am sorry, but instead of the 4" pipes we used those small 1/2" ones for your toilet. But the good news is, we can fix it and replace them."

Now, according to your logic it would be totally fair for the plumber to put the cost of fixing his mistake on your bill. I cant really follow that logic.
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tocata

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Re: Hauptwerk VI - paid update after 11 months?

PostFri Nov 20, 2020 1:48 pm

I am willing to pay for good software, and this is the reason why I upgraded from HW4 Free to HW5 lite last year since the lite edition was the better product and enabled me to enjoy more sample sets with lesser restrictions at a higher polyphony. I cannot say I feel burned by the fact that there is a new version out already, but certainly it causes some concerns.

Now, as a subscriber I could just shrug it off if it weren't for the price hike and the fact that I am forced to upgrade as soon as my subscription ends. While this might be a marginal concern this time around, what when a forced HW 7 upgrade left behind Windows 7 systems for good? I would either have to upgrade about everything else to keep enjoying HW as one of several hobbies or just jump ship and be content with whatever the other organ simulators bring to the table.

And even if I wanted to prevent a forced subscription model upgrade onto me by buying the perpetual license for HW 6 and be done with it as long as I live and play (and as long current and future hardware will support HW 6), I would have to live with the feeling that those $600 investment won't see any future improvements of core functionality (or a nice-to-have bug or otherwise fix) if an upgrade to HW 7 or beyond could easily fix the shortcoming and problems of the current version (that's basically what they are saying in their terms regarding support of the outdated versions).

In other words, I can see them setting the stage for a yearly big upgrade (great if it offers substantial improvements) coupled with questionable upgrade fees or an all subscription model that forces subscribers to go with the flow and eventually unnecessary hardware upgrades. So, whatever their reasoning is, it does not really encourage confidence.
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Re: Hauptwerk VI - paid update after 11 months?

PostFri Nov 20, 2020 4:37 pm

What the hell is this?
I´ve been using Hauptwerk for many years and upgraded to V (I haven´t noticed any actual change at all). But, this?? Are they seriously trying to make us pay again??? I´m sorry but I consider this a scam. I´m completely out and won´t spend a single more dollar in any MDA product if they don´t drastically change their business model.
To make things even worse I go to the downloads page to download the 5.01 version (I haven´t done it yet) and it is not there anymore!! This is completely abusive!!
Calling the perpetual licenses "perpetual" sounds like a joke in bad taste now...
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micdev

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Re: Hauptwerk VI - paid update after 11 months?

PostFri Nov 20, 2020 5:28 pm

Good afternoon Buxtejor,

Contact me at support AT hauptwerk.com
Best regards
François

Virtually sharing my enthusiasm and experience with you
Worldwide technical assistance, consultation and ready to play system.

http://www.HauptwerkConsultant.com

AND Hauptwerk Support Manager
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Erzahler

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Re: Hauptwerk VI - paid update after 11 months?

PostSat Nov 21, 2020 4:16 am

Will there be updates to pay for every 6 months now?
A major update is usually paid for then updates are free for a few years.
It is too soon to have a significant upgrade and call it Version VI!
This upgrade whatever it is should still be part of version V and at no cost.
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DomD

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Re: Hauptwerk VI - paid update after 11 months?

PostSat Nov 21, 2020 4:24 am

Erzahler wrote:Will there be updates to pay for every 6 months now?
A major update is usually paid for then updates are free for a few years.
It is too soon to have a significant upgrade and call it Version VI!
This upgrade whatever it is should still be part of version V and at no cost.



You're absolutly right
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buxtejor

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Re: Hauptwerk VI - paid update after 11 months?

PostSat Nov 21, 2020 4:56 am

micdev wrote:Good afternoon Buxtejor,

Contact me at support AT hauptwerk.com

I have been able to find the links for the 5.01 version in another thread in this forum. Thank you in any case
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josq

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Re: Hauptwerk VI - paid update after 11 months?

PostSat Nov 21, 2020 6:04 am

Purator wrote:
162_Ranks wrote:I guess the devs could work for free for a year to make up for the fact that they made some design mistakes but I don't think you are going to get many takers for that job...

So, your plumber has finished his work, comes to you and says: "I am sorry, but instead of the 4" pipes we used those small 1/2" ones for your toilet. But the good news is, we can fix it and replace them."

Now, according to your logic it would be totally fair for the plumber to put the cost of fixing his mistake on your bill. I cant really follow that logic.


Is the upgrade from v5 to v6 really about fixing design mistakes? Or was the design until v5 just simpler/more crude? I think it is the latter. Extra work has been done to make the software more advanced/fancier. Those working hours are not free. So that makes it reasonable to ask some money.

It is up to us customers to determine if we find the extra/improved features worthwile. I am still a bit in doubt about that.

Other than missing these features, I don't see any disadvantage in not upgrading to v6. So I don't understand the sentiment that we are being screwed by MDA.

The situation was different for the v4 -> v5 upgrade. That transition meant the end of support for v4 licenses. I understand people feel uneasy about that, but to me that was justified because 1) there were significant new features/improvements 2) HW 4 was already 8.5 years old and 3) the v4 licensing system was broken and appeared to be abused at a quite large scale.
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zonker

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Re: Hauptwerk VI - paid update after 11 months?

PostSat Nov 21, 2020 6:32 am

IainStinson wrote:How much pleasure / benefit do you get from Hauptwerk? If it is costing around $100 a year that’s less than $2 a week.
[...]
Professional, high quality Software development and support is expensive. Developers and support engineers need to be paid. Hauptwerk is very high quality. Hauptwerk is a niche product. Think about the number of licenses purchased and do the arithmetic. Can this sustain the development and support customers want?


pretty much these two things + one extra: MDA has changed their business model from one expensive update every several years to spreading this cost out more evenly via monthly or annual payments for incremental updates.

I'd also like a free lunch, but it's hard to run a business if you don't have a steady source of income. Having a 7-year gap between major software releases is the sort of thing that can mess cashflow around to the point that it can turn a viable business into a non-viable business.

Nick
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