Zwolle sample set - users, price, first experiences

[zurek]

The Zwolle sample setintrodutory period continues. We are now slowly approaching the 30 orders threshold, 3 more orders (or 1 order of the 3 in 1 bundle) is needed for the price of the sample set to be lowered to the next limit of 550 EUR.

Installation issues:
Also, as the sample set arrives to the first customers (besides the Czech post, also the post offices in Germany seem to function extremely fast), there are some first experiences with the sample set, mostly related to the installation of the sample set. 2 users had problems installing the sample set, one of them could not install the wet sample set, one of them could not install the dry one. I have to admit, that the installation is a kind of nightmare for the sample set producer, especially when the installation package is very large - and nearly all of my installation packages can be described as very or even extremely large - one installation package usually takes the whole DVD medium being more than 4 GB big ... it is a figure at the edge of usability, I think. Therefore, I suspect that Hauptwerk installer, or the DVD drive of your computer can have sometimes problems. If this happen, I will try to solve it somehow, I can, for example, send to you new installation media, but this often does not help. I suspect that not all the DVD drives are capable of reading all kind of media (I use Verbatim DVD-R 16x speed printable media which I found the very well readable on a number of machines). Also, all the DVDs are tested after burning and also, the rar archives (= the installation packages) are randomly tested with the WinRar for an error. Only error free media are sent to customers. The next question should be directed to Martin Dyde if he has some suggestions about the Hauptwerk installer. It happened to me several times, that I could not install the installation package using the internal Hauptwerk installer, while the archive itself was perfectly readable in WinRar and could also be extracted manually to the Hauptwerk folders bypassing the Hauptwerk installator. I cannot explain why this happens, but I will also try to assist to my customers with the installation of the sample sets.

[[)Naeryl(]]

Hello,

I also had such DVD problem with St Maximin: certains DVD readers don't read properly certains DVD. But there are two simple solutions:

a. Try to read the DVD on another driver or computer and copy the package(s) on an other medium

or

b. Make an iso of the DVD (with the problematic couple of driver/DVD) and read it from the HD with an image emulator (like Daemon Tools)

[mdyde]

Hello Jiri,

I suspect that not all the DVD drives are capable of reading all kind of media (I use Verbatim DVD-R 16x speed printable media which I found the very well readable on a number of machines).

All writeable CD/DVD disks will contain some errors. The CD/DVD format has a certain amount of error-tolerance built in.

Different CD/DVD readers are often more or less tolerant to particular types/brands of media, and even to DVDs that have been written on different DVD writers, perhaps due to slight differences in laser head alignments, brightness/evenness of laser during writing, etc.

I expect you know all of this anyway, but my experience is that the number of computers that will have problems reading a disk is significantly reduced by:

- Using a high-quality DVD writer (e.g. Plextor Premium range or Plextor PX-760A/PX-800A),

- Using good-quality DVD writer software that performs a full byte-by-byte verify of all written data (some DVD writing software doesn't do that by default and some software says it verifies, but doesn't actually do a byte-by-byte verify).

- Using very high-quality CD/DVD media (e.g. Taiyo Yuden are reputedly the best available) .

- Writing at fairly low speeds, e.g. writing at only 4x even when using a drive and media that are capable of writing at 16x.

Likewise, it depends a lot on the end-user's DVD drive. A high-quality DVD reader (e.g. Plextor) is likely to be more tolerant to slight media errors than a low quality one, and so is likely to have problems reading less disks. However I imagine that a lot of off-the-shelf PCs probably ship with quite cheap CD/DVD drives.

If somebody has a problem with a particular drive reading a particular DVD, often just using a different drive to read the disk will solve the problem. If it happens regularly, it might be worth that person considering upgrading to a higher-quality DVD reader, or at least replacing the drive.

The next question should be directed to Martin Dyde if he has some suggestions about the Hauptwerk installer. It happened to me several times, that I could not install the installation package using the internal Hauptwerk installer, while the archive itself was perfectly readable in WinRar and could also be extracted manually to the Hauptwerk folders bypassing the Hauptwerk installator.

There was a problem with Hauptwerk v2 in which the component installer sometimes crashed when extracting archives or might appear to have frozen when extracting very large files. However those are fully fixed in Hauptwerk v3+, and there are no known problems in the component installer in v3.00 except:

HW-000734: Component installer doesn't give re-install/upgrade options if incorrect drive-letter/folder-name case was entered for installation locations when Hauptwerk was originally installed.

For various other issues with the component installer in pre-v3.00 versions, search for 'component installer' on this page:

http://www.crumhorn-labs.com/Support-HWBugsClosed.shtml

Hence there should never be any need to or benefit in trying to extract files manually providing that Hauptwerk v3+ is used (and it should only be done as a last resort, and only with guidance from us or the sample set producer because the component installer performs other functions apart from just extracting the files). There should also be no benefit in copying the files to a hard-drive first because Hauptwerk (v2.20 and later) does that automatically before extracting them, to try to keep the DVD reader reading a constant speed, which seems to help reduce the chance of it having problems reading a given disk.

If a person is having problems installing a sample set and is using Hauptwerk v2 then upgrading to v3 is highly recommended and might well solve them.

The Hauptwerk log file will always log the exact error messages that occur when installing a component, so always check the log file for them. The most likely errors are 'CRC' errors and 'unexpected end of archive'. If either of those appears then the DVD is genuinely corrupted or the DVD reader is having problems reading it (try ejecting the DVD and reinserting then just try again, and/or try a different DVD reader).

If the extraction is failing because of CRC or 'unexpected archive' errors, and the person is using Hauptwerk v3.00 or later, then it's extremely unlikely that trying to extract the files manually with WinRAR or any other tool will succeed. If it does succeed, then it's probably just by chance (e.g. the DVD reader happened to read the disk at a slightly different speed at one point or the laser head/disk were aligned slightly differently that time) or perhaps just that the DVD drive was spinning the disk at a different speed generally, which happened to allow a particularly bit/byte to be read more successfully.

[zurek]

Dear Martin,
thank you for your extensive explanation of the problem! Indeed, my installation problems were always related to Hauptwerk v2 and I did not experience any installation problems with Hautpwerk 3. So, I asume that also those two users were relating to Hauptwerk v2. Neverthless, one of them already reported a couple or hours ago, that having reinserted the media to the drive today, the problem was gone and the sample set could be fully installed without problems. So, I still think that it is in general related more to the media/readers issues than to Hauptwerk itself. Anyway, thank you for the explanation. I checked the DVD burner, I use Plextor PX716A which had good reviews in Czech, but I am already now thinking of buying a new one which you recommend.
I am using the Verbatim media mainly because they are printable, I like the printed surface of the disks. I will look to the stores for printable media of the brand you recommend.

Thank you again!

[mdyde]

Hello Jiri,

I checked the DVD burner, I use Plextor PX716A which had good reviews in Czech, but I am already now thinking of buying a new one which you recommend.

The Plextor PX760As had good reviews when I last needed to buy a DVD writer, but that was a while ago, and I haven't really looked much since then. Hence I'd definitely do some research amongst current reviews/websites relating to professional-quality DVD mastering/duplication before buying a new drive or relying on my recommendations - there might be a better model available now.

[pwhodges]

The Plextor PX760As had good reviews

It's obsolete - I think you can still get an external one, but that's it (though I've seen a 755 fairly recently, which is essentially the same). Plextor have stopped designing CD/DVD drives themselves; all current Plextor drives are rebadged from other manufacturers, though they do have Plextor's own firmware (which might make a slight difference). Unfortunately none of the badged drives includes the diagnostic facilities that Plextor drives were known for.

If you see a Plextor 712, 716, 755 or 760 (or Premium CD drive) in a dark corner, grab it - it will be your last chance.

Paul

[Grant_Youngman]

The Zwolle 'wet' set arrived today. Really fast delivery! Thanks, Jiri. Installed without a hitch.

Couldn't load the entire set uncomressed at 24-bits into 16G. So I ended up installing the various noises at 16 bits compressed, the pedal at 24 bits compressed and everything else at 24 bits uncompressed.

Squeaked by at 15.2G.

Haven't had time to play much today or explore the instrument since Valentine's Day priorities are elsewhere, but first impressions are very good.

I'm beginning to wonder if we're soon to find that a mere 16G of RAM is going to be a bit on the 'not quite enough' side :)

[Stefanussen]

I understand you can put 32Gs in one of the new Mac Pros ...$$$$$$$


..$$$



.$

[zurek]

There are first live recorded demo pieces supplied by Pierre Jacquet. His performance is always like a jewel on my web pages.
Also, some translations of the Zwolle presentation were added.

[Lougheed]

I'm beginning to wonder if we're soon to find that a mere 16G of RAM is going to be a bit on the 'not quite enough' side :)

I've certainly decided that configuring a system with 16G makes sense. As with all things computer, the memory requirements (either RAM or HDD) seem to grow and grow! Remember when 640K was adequate? Good times.

Lawrence

[Grant_Youngman]

[HDD) seem to grow and grow! Remember when 640K was adequate? Good times.

Lawrence

I remember when 10K was usual and 32K was a BIG system :)

It also looks like the pre Jan 8, 2008 Mac Pro may also support 32G with pairs of 4G sticks. I'm not inclined to experiment there yet, but another huge sample set may push me over the edge to at least give it a try. There seems to be some rumbling that Apple may have to release a firmware update, but word is that there are "old, decrepit, worthless 2007" Mac Pros working fine with over 16G of RAM installed.

------------------------

Update.

I spoke with Apple tech support, and their story was 16G max, and they wouldn't budge. I then spoke with customer support at Crucial/Micron who is offering 4G sticks for the "old" Mac Pro, and they confirmed that it has been tested to 32G, and even though Apple support won't commit to anything beyond 16G, 32G works just fine.

Good news, for whatever huge thing is coming next. I see more RAM in my future :)

[zurek]

The Zwolle sample set priceis still decreasing, now we have 31 orders and therefore the price drops to 550 EUR per version of the sample set.
Next price update will follow on Wednesday 20th February as I am now away from the office to record the sound of one small but very important Czech historical organ. Its importance is in the fact that it remained absolutely unaltered since it was built in 18th century.

[Johannes Sørensen]

The Zwolle Dry sample set was installed without any problems.

Loaded in 4GB of ram in 24 bit compressed.
Reverberation from a Lexicon MPX-550 with a digital connection to the PC.
When playing with loudspeakers I use seperate speakers for the reverb signal.
Both when I use speakers and with headphones my first experiences are very good as they are with the Litomysl Dry sample set.

A little thing.
When I open "Load organ" in Hauptwerk I see all three versions in the list of organs although I only have the dry version.
Is it possible to avoid this when the sample set is installed, or is it afterwards possible to remove the unactive "Zwolle_Surround" and "Zwolle_Wet" from the list of organs?

The last stop "Koppelingen" don't react when I click on it. Is that as it shall be?

A question of curiosity and ignorance. What is the function of the stop "Windlosser" or what is the name of it in English?

Regards
Johannes

[mdyde]

Hello Johannes,

When I open "Load organ" in Hauptwerk I see all three versions in the list of organs although I only have the dry version.
Is it possible to avoid this when the sample set is installed, or is it afterwards possible to remove the unactive "Zwolle_Surround" and "Zwolle_Wet" from the list of organs?

You could uninstall the spurious organ definitions using 'File | Uninstall ...'.

[Sander]

A "windlosser" let's you remove the air from the windsupply fast.

"koppelingen" is dutch for couplers, so could be just a name sign.