It is currently Mon Mar 01, 2021 6:04 pm


Hint for Zwolle or other large sets

Existing and forthcoming Hauptwerk instruments, recommendations, ...
  • Author
  • Message
Offline
User avatar

Gert

Member

  • Posts: 257
  • Joined: Mon Nov 05, 2007 8:57 am
  • Location: Netherlands

Hint for Zwolle or other large sets

PostMon Feb 25, 2008 2:00 am

Hi,
For the new Zwolle Wet Sample Set, most of us have 2 problems:

1. Money
2. The Requirements (memory / polyphony) are too high. Most of us have only 2.7 or 3.2 GB internal memory available for Hauptwerk.

I suggest two solutions:
1) When we are solidary and united, we all buy the sample set. May be when there are about 100 buyers, Jiri will lower the price further.

2) For this type of organ each manual can be used on its own.
Split the organ in:
a) Hoofdwerk / Rugwerk / Pedaal (part of ranks)
b) Bovenpositief / Borstwerk / Pedaal (part of ranks)
and eventually:
c) Hoofdwerk / Bovenpositief / Pedaal (part of ranks)
d) Rugwerk / Borstwerk / Pedaal (part of ranks)
e) Hoofdwerk / Borstwerk / Pedaal (part of ranks)
f) Rugwerk / Bovenpositief / Pedaal (part of ranks)

Use this trick to make the 6 separated organs:

1. Copy the file C:\Hauptwerk\HauptwerkSampleSetsAndComponents\OrganDefinitions\Zwolle_Wet.Organ.Hauptwerk (name can be different) 6 times times to:
- ZwolleHwRw.Organ.Hauptwerk
- ZwolleBpBw.Organ.Hauptwerk
- ZwolleHwBp.Organ.Hauptwerk
- ZwolleRwBw.Organ.Hauptwerk
- ZwolleHwBw.Organ.Hauptwerk
- ZwolleRwBp.Organ.Hauptwerk

2. Edit each copied file and change the values of 2 tags (are in the top of the big file):
<Identification_UniqueOrganID>380</Identification_UniqueOrganID>
<Identification_Name>Zwolle Wet</Identification_Name>

Use for each organ a new unique OrganID e.g. 801001 to 801006.
Use for the <Identification_Name> for example:
- Zwolle Schnitger Hoofdwerk - Rugwerk
- Zwolle Schnitger Bovenpositief - Borstwerk
- Zwolle Schnitger Hoofdwerk / Bovenpositief
- Zwolle Schnitger Rugwerk - Borstwerk
- Zwolle Schnitger Hoofdwerk - Bovenpositief
- Zwolle Schnitger Rugwerk - Bovenpositief

3. Load each 'Partial organ' with:
- Only the ranks enabled for that concerned part
- 16-bit (and Pedal and Key Sounds 14-bit)
- Memory compression
- First loop
- Multiple releases

Each partial set can be loaded in about 2.8 GB.

Regards,

Gert
www.PCorgan.com
info@PCorgan.com
Last edited by Gert on Thu Feb 28, 2008 2:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Offline

Anton Heger

Member

  • Posts: 323
  • Joined: Fri Jun 23, 2006 1:14 pm
  • Location: The Netherlands

PostMon Feb 25, 2008 6:34 am

suggest two solutions:
1) When we are solidary and united, we all buy the sample set. May be when there are about 100 buyers, Jiri will lower the price further.

In a very small market, prices had to be high. That is clear.
This explains me why the first samplesets are expensive.

But with more than 850 potential users, a samplesetmaker had to choose to go further on the old way or to change his mind.
With a price of 550,- and about 40 users (out of 850!), one got 22000,- for all the work done.
With a price of 300,- and 100 users, one get 30000,- for the same work.
Jiri can check these numbers because he knows perfectly how many samplesets of the dry Litomysl he have sold (for a price of 95 or 187 euro)

It is suprisingly that with an increasing market, the prices do not drop.

Anton

PS. I am still really satisfied with the dry Litomysl. But for 300,-, I would buy Zwolle too.
Offline
User avatar

ReinerS

Member

  • Posts: 818
  • Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2004 11:52 am
  • Location: Braunschweig, Germany

PostMon Feb 25, 2008 6:59 am

Hello Anton,

just out of curiosity:
What do you base your assumption on that when dropping the price by ca. 40% the number of customers will more than double? What if for 300€ he just gets 60 customers?
I think it is very hard to predict such numbers, and it amounts to a kind of poker game for the sample set provider. So each one of us makes his best guess and sets a price such that the costs of the endeavour are covered and hopefully a little money is earned.
Sure with an increased customer base the prices will eventually come down, but we're still far away from a mass market.

Regards
Reiner
Offline

Lougheed

Member

  • Posts: 584
  • Joined: Sat Feb 05, 2005 10:08 pm
  • Location: Canada

Re: Hint for Zwolle or other large sets

PostMon Feb 25, 2008 7:00 am

Gert wrote:Hi,
For the new Zwolle Wet Sample Set, most of us have 2 problems:
2. The Requirements (memory / polyphony) are too high. Most of us have only 2.7 or 3.2 GB internal memory available for Hauptwerk.


Yes, but that will change. For example, I don't even have the above internal memory available for Haupterk, but am planning on getting a Mac Pro with 16G. Why? So I can run the larger and more realistic sounding (multiple release layers etc.) organs.

When enough organs are released, requiring memory beyond what users current have, people will upgrade. That is the simple rule of computers, and always has been!

Lawrence
Offline
User avatar

mdyde

Moderator

  • Posts: 13059
  • Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2003 1:19 pm
  • Location: UK

PostMon Feb 25, 2008 7:01 am

Hello Gert,

2. Edit each copied file and change the values of 2 tags (are in the top of the big file):
<Identification_UniqueOrganID>12345</Identification_UniqueOrganID>
<Identification_Name>Zwolle Schnitger</Identification_Name>


If you edit the organ ID in that way you must use a number in the 'user' range, which is 800000 - 899999. Numbers below that are allocated to sample set producers, so you you could break another sample set if you use a number that is not in the range.

2. The Requirements (memory / polyphony) are too high. Most of us have only 2.7 or 3.2 GB internal memory available for Hauptwerk.


You can of course also use the Custom Organ Design Module to create whatever organ specifications you like using the ranks from a sample set.
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.
Offline

Lougheed

Member

  • Posts: 584
  • Joined: Sat Feb 05, 2005 10:08 pm
  • Location: Canada

Re: Hint for Zwolle or other large sets

PostMon Feb 25, 2008 7:04 am

Gert wrote:For the new Zwolle Wet Sample Set, most of us have 2 problems:

1. Money


Perhaps these large organs could be marketed at various levels: full, intermediate and small, and at various price points.

In the piano world, for example, the Garritan Steinway is about to be released: three versions, and three price points:

Professional Version: $399
Standard Version : $199
Basic Version : $99

Also, since the various sub-sets would be of various sizes, the memory requirements would be variable.

Lawrence
Offline

Anton Heger

Member

  • Posts: 323
  • Joined: Fri Jun 23, 2006 1:14 pm
  • Location: The Netherlands

PostMon Feb 25, 2008 8:11 am

Hello Reinier,

Thanks for your reply.
you wrote
What do you base your assumption on that when dropping the price by ca. 40% the number of customers will more than double? What if for 300€ he just gets 60 customers?
I think it is very hard to predict such numbers, and it amounts to a kind of poker game for the sample set provider.

Of course you have a point.
But exactly because of your arguments, I wrote that Jiri himself knows very well the relation between price and number of sales, because he sold an 'expensive' organ in the recent past (St. Maximim) and a cheap organ (Litomysl Dry).
Are my arguments correct? Jiri knows!

Anton
Offline

bellolid

Member

  • Posts: 53
  • Joined: Tue Dec 12, 2006 11:57 am

PostMon Feb 25, 2008 9:16 am

I Think that Antone are right!
You can make a statistics reading how many forum-topic there are with
"Litomysl" word and other organ name!
Dario Belloli
Verdello (Italy)
Offline
User avatar

pwhodges

Member

  • Posts: 824
  • Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2004 11:08 am
  • Location: UK, Oxford

PostMon Feb 25, 2008 12:04 pm

Anton wrote:It is suprisingly that with an increasing market, the prices do not drop.

Not really. Note how much more sophisticated the sets are becoming (multiple releases; both wet and dry versions, and surround for Zwolle), and remember that each additional item requires more work - just looking at the size of these sets should make that point clear.

Paul
Offline
User avatar

zurek

Member

  • Posts: 676
  • Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2003 8:38 am
  • Location: Prague

PostMon Feb 25, 2008 12:14 pm

Well, the price of the sample set is calculated from numerous factors. Litomysl is relatively cheap because it is not a historically valuable organ. And also my investments into the recording of that particular organ were very small. At that time, I was alone doing the job. On the contrary, when recording Zwolle, the investment was extremely high, if I calculate it alltogether, it was some 12.000 EUR or so. Moreover, I want to pay to my colleagues who help me with the work. The problem is that such a huge organ would take extremely long time to process if I was alone for the work. Therefore, I had to enlarge my team considerably. And still, I want to dedicate big portion of the Hauptwerk income for future development of the project and what is very important, I want to continue the support of the restoration works here in the Czech Republic (so far, we partially supported the restoration of one small 19th century instrument - I hope that a sample set of that charming little organ will appear in future) and there are some new projects we are starting.

The biggest problem, however, is that Hauptwerk sample set producing became important and unusually time consuming activity of my life and therefore it has now to contribute substantially to my income, since in this way I can justify my work in front of my family and, after all, also in front of myself. One has to be not only Hauptwerk enthusiast, but also responsible husband and father.

Nevertheless, I think that the sample set prices are droping. It is not the absolute price for the sample set, but I think it is important to compare the price per stop!!! And here you can definitely see the progress towards cheaper prices.

Also, it is not true that selling 40 sample sets for 550 EUR equals to 22.000 for the work, since in the case of Zwolle, there are huge discounts if you order 2 versions together or even the bundle of 3 sample sets! In that case you get 3 sample sets for the price of 2.

Unfortunately, Anton is not right in the case of the prices for the sample sets. I just checked the database of my users to see that so far, I have sold 44 copies of the Litomysl Dry Sample Set. It is about the same number as the Zwolle orders. And most of the orders come in the introductory period!!! After that the number of orders is almost 0. Therefore, I still think that those sample set producers who decided to sell their sample set at very high prices are good merchants, since the number of users DOES NOT DEPEND on the price of the sample set.

Finally, there is one fairly important aspect which I would call the perception of "value". If you sell two identical sample sets at different price, say the first at 999,- EUR and the second at 150,- EUR, everyone in the world will think that the first one MUST be more valuable than the second. And paradoxically, the more expensive sample set might attract more attention than the cheaper. It is the very basic trick of "high-end" products. So, you can see that to construct the price of the sample set is very uneasy task.
Offline

Anton Heger

Member

  • Posts: 323
  • Joined: Fri Jun 23, 2006 1:14 pm
  • Location: The Netherlands

PostMon Feb 25, 2008 1:42 pm

Thanks Jiri!
I hoped for an other answer, but now you make it really clear that I am wrong.
Again: thanks a lot for your explanation!

Anton
Offline

nachoba

Member

  • Posts: 16
  • Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2005 9:35 pm

PostMon Feb 25, 2008 8:15 pm

zurek wrote:Finally, there is one fairly important aspect which I would call the perception of "value". If you sell two identical sample sets at different price, say the first at 999,- EUR and the second at 150,- EUR, everyone in the world will think that the first one MUST be more valuable than the second. And paradoxically, the more expensive sample set might attract more attention than the cheaper. It is the very basic trick of "high-end" products. So, you can see that to construct the price of the sample set is very uneasy task.


Jiri, let's try that one! :D
Put Zwolle at Litomysl's price and I guarantee you that I will not think is of lower quality. :P :P :P
Offline

GDay

Member

  • Posts: 573
  • Joined: Mon Sep 13, 2004 12:01 am

PostMon Feb 25, 2008 8:58 pm

Hi Jiri,

Thanks for your candid and straightforward explanation of your pricing. Much appreciated.

G'Day
Offline

[)Naeryl(]

Member

  • Posts: 153
  • Joined: Tue Mar 08, 2005 8:16 am
  • Location: France, Moselle

PostTue Feb 26, 2008 7:44 am

...and also thanks for making such decreasing pricing system, and for considering special discounts (students, ...)...and simply for providing very good sample sets!
Offline

bellolid

Member

  • Posts: 53
  • Joined: Tue Dec 12, 2006 11:57 am

PostTue Feb 26, 2008 8:29 am

Hello Jiri, thank you for your attention...
your problem is also our problem...

eh... we too have a family and we have to justify our shopping...
The computer, the consolle, the aplifier, the speakers, the HW software, the HW upgrade!!,
and then 1 organ sample, 2 organs, 3 organs....

You say

"If you sell two identical sample sets at different price, say the first at 999,- EUR and the second at 150,- EUR, everyone in the world will think that the first one MUST be more valuable than the second"

maybe you are right, but at the end I (as others users I think) decided to buy "litomysl" also for low price,
and I think that is a good purchase!
but in the same time I have wish try play others kind of organs like
Zwolle, S.Maximin, Metz, Wurlitzer etc... but the cost is high for single...
(by the way, You received 44 litomysl orders for "DRY" set, and "WET"?
for Zwolle are 40 orders for Dry+Wet+Surround sets)

between 187 EUR and 500 EUR, there are 200 eur - 220 - 240 - .... 250

Every new purchase must be added with precedents and in the future will be always more difficult
to buy the new organ samples if the price increase.

Please, Jiri, Brett and all others sample set producers, help young organists, drop the price
for the new and the old of your products!!!

TRYING TO BELIEVE!!! (in intalian: "PROVARE PER CREDERE!")

THANK YOU!!
Dario Belloli
Verdello (Italy)
Next

Return to Hauptwerk instruments

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests