The new Forcalquier sampleset with 3.10 from Jiry Zurek

[elec]

Hello All ,
I install the new sampleset " the Forcalquier French Organ" from Jiry Zurek in Hauptwerk 3.10 but when I play the samples e.g.one tone from the prestant 8 with one finger ,after a few seconds there come a big ,hard glitsch out my speakers and Hauptwerk shut down directly.
I load the samples with 20 bit. My totall memory use is 7GB (I have total 8GB) .I reduce the audio to -20 .
My other samplesets work fine.
Have anybody also install this sample set and perhaps the same problem ??

Elec.

[mdyde]

Hello Elec,

Can I just verify that you do definitely now have your Windows page file set specifically to 'system managed size'? 64-bit Windows or drivers can crash if not when an application uses large amounts of data.

As soon as you've loaded the sample set (and before playing any notes to avoid the problem) please try to use 'File | Create diagnostic file...' to email a diagnostic file to me so that I can see your system info with the sample set loaded.

I'm afraid we don't yet have a copy of the Forcalquier sample set so I might not easily be able to help much beyond that, but perhaps the diagnostic file will give a clue.

[Anton Heger]

I can confirm this behaviour: I have had the same with Zwolle. but only the first time of loading as far as I can see now.
Using a new ODF of the sampleset, I load it, HW caches it and then I closed HW immediately.
After a second load, I do not have the problem again.

Anton

[elec]

Hello Elec,

Can I just verify that you do definitely ? 64-bit Windows or drivers can crash if not when an application uses large amounts of data.

As soon as you've loaded the sample set (and before playing any notes to avoid the problem) please try to use 'File | Create diagnostic file...' to email a diagnostic file to me so that I can see your system info with the sample set loaded.

I'm afraid we don't yet have a copy of the Forcalquier sample set so I might not easily be able to help much beyond that, but perhaps the diagnostic file will give a clue.

Hello Martin ,
thanks for the quick reply.
I send you a email yesterday
Because after install 3.10 the sample sets load very slow.
Your solution was to look for my page file settings.
I did so and now the samles load very quickly.
but in the user -guide I read:
"Windows XP use Start | Settings | Control Panel | System, then click on the Performance | Settings button on the Advanced tab. Select Adjust for best performance, then click the Advanced tab. Leave Processor scheduling and Memory usage both set to favour Programs and ensure that [color=darkblue]Virtual memory shows a total paging file size at least as large as the amount of physical memory installed,[/color] otherwise click Change and select System managed size for the hard-disk you want Windows to use for its virtual memory, then click Set"
and I set my virtueel memory to 20GB.
Now I set my Windows page file set specifically to 'system managed size'
and all works fine.

Thanks and the best regards

[mdyde]

Hello Elec,

but in the user -guide I read:
"Windows XP use Start | Settings | Control Panel | System, then click on the Performance | Settings button on the Advanced tab. Select Adjust for best performance, then click the Advanced tab. Leave Processor scheduling and Memory usage both set to favour Programs and ensure that Virtual memory shows a total paging file size at least as large as the amount of physical memory installed, otherwise click Change and select System managed size for the hard-disk you want Windows to use for its virtual memory, then click Set"
and I set my virtueel memory to 20GB.
Now I set my Windows page file set specifically to 'system managed size'
and all works fine.

Sorry for any confusion. We'll get that clarified in the next revision of the user guide.

Just to make certain: you mean that the Forcalquier now works fully, even if you hold long notes?

Another question: is there more than one Forcalquier organ definition file to choose from?

If so, do you always load the same one? (I wonder if perhaps the problem was related to two organ definition files having the same unique organ ID but using different samples, so that Hauptwerk's cache of the sample set for one would be invalid for another.)

Hello Anton,

I can confirm this behaviour: I have had the same with Zwolle. but only the first time of loading as far as I can see now.
Using a new ODF of the sampleset, I load it, HW caches it and then I closed HW immediately.
After a second load, I do not have the problem again.

Can you clarify exactly what problem you had the first time you loaded the Zwolle?

Which version of the Zwolle and which organ definition?

Was Windows' page file set to 'system managed size' at that time?

Have you ever switched from using one Zwolle organ definition file to another at any point?

Many thanks.

[elec]

Hello Elec,

but in the user -guide I read:
"Windows XP use Start | Settings | Control Panel | System, then click on the Performance | Settings button on the Advanced tab. Select Adjust for best performance, then click the Advanced tab. Leave Processor scheduling and Memory usage both set to favour Programs and ensure that Virtual memory shows a total paging file size at least as large as the amount of physical memory installed, otherwise click Change and select System managed size for the hard-disk you want Windows to use for its virtual memory, then click Set"
and I set my virtueel memory to 20GB.
Now I set my Windows page file set specifically to 'system managed size'
and all works fine.

Sorry for any confusion. We'll get that clarified in the next revision of the user guide.

Just to make certain: you mean that the Forcalquier now works fully, even if you hold long notes?

Another question: is there more than one Forcalquier organ definition file to choose from?

If so, do you always load the same one? (I wonder if perhaps the problem was related to two organ definition files having the same unique organ ID but using different samples, so that Hauptwerk's cache of the sample set for one would be invalid for another.)


Many thanks.

Hello Martin ,
1)I hold the notes for 20sec and the sound is now very good.
2)In my "Load organ "choice there is but one Forcalquier organ to load.

[Anton Heger]

Hello Anton,

Can you clarify exactly what problem you had the first time you loaded the Zwolle?
Which version of the Zwolle and which organ definition?
Was Windows' page file set to 'system managed size' at that time?
Have you ever switched from using one Zwolle organ definition file to another at any point?

Many thanks.
_________________
Best regards,
Martin.

I have made some ODF´s with minor variations in the ImageSetInstance section and numbered them from 800000 upwards, based on the original ODF of Jiri.

The first time I encountered this problem, was just after I enables the pagefile. Thus I immediately disabled the pagefile. This afternoon, I made some changes in the version 1.25 of Jiri (the version with the windmodel) and I got it again (with the pagefile enabled).
So I loaded the organ again, closed HW, restart HW and reloaded the organ and now it all works fine!

The problem is that I, at unpredictable moments (with all stops on but also with only one stop on, after een few seconds or after a minute or two), got a shiny white screen (like a white curtain over the organ display), a loud disturbed noise and a message that I 1) should report this message to Microsoft or 2) close the application.

I am not sure if the problem ionly occurs with Zwolle. I have to check that.

Anton

[Anton Heger]

An addition: with all those ODF's I go up to the limits of my 8GB of RAM.
(I have an AMD 5600+ system with Vista 64bit and 8GB of RAM)

Cappel doesn't use so much memory and I have checked it: this problem does not occur with this organ.
I can try other small organs later this evening.

[mdyde]

Hello Elec/Anton,

I have added this entry to the known bugs page on the website:

HW-000866: Audio distortion or crash possible if notes sustained after first time (only) that some Sonus Paradisi sample sets have been loaded.

The first time that Hauptwerk loads a sample set (or after Hauptwerk has been upgraded, or if you change any audio routing settings), Hauptwerk will re-generate its sample set data cache for that sample set. Subsequent times that you load the sample set it will instead load from the cached version (which is much faster). After regenerating a sample set data cache it has been found that sustaining long notes can cause sudden and severe audio distortion or a crash with certain recent Sonus Paradisi sample sets (not all). At the time of writing this has been reported and reproduced with the Sonus Paradisi Forcalquier, Prague Baroque and Zwolle sample sets. Specifically, the problem can occur if the default release sample for a pipe is stored in a separate file to the default attack sample. (The bug has existed since Hauptwerk version 2.00 but has only become apparent recently since until recently no sample sets had been created that contain samples formatted in that specific way. The problem is also more likely to be noticed in version 3.10 because memory is reused more aggressively internally due to the loading speed improvements in version 3.10.) We will aim to release a formal fix for this problem as a matter of the highest possible priority. As a temporary work-around, especially for recent Sonus Paradisi sample sets, whenever a sample set data cache has been regenerated (for example, the first time that you load the sample set in Hauptwerk version 3.10), please simply unload it (Organ | Unload) straight away, without playing any notes. Then re-load it (so that it loads from the cached version) using 'Organ | Load organ' or 'Organ | Load recent organ'. It is possible to tell when Hauptwerk is regenerating the sample set data cache for a samples set because the following message will be displayed above the loading progress indicator: "Please wait whilst the organ is loaded and prepared for use on your system. This might take a few minutes but subsequent loads should be many times faster.". Since subsequent loads will occur from the cache (unless you subsequently change any audio routing settings), it can then be used normally. We have identified and fixed the problem and will release an update containing that fix as soon as possible. In the meantime, please simply use the work-around above. Our apologies for the problem.

Product version introduced: 02.00
Product version fixed in: No fix yet available
Priority: High

I can reproduce the problem with the Prague Baroque sample set and it only appears to occur when the sample set cache is regenerated, as in the bug description.

The problem is not specifically related to the Windows page file, although please always make sure that the Windows page file remains set to 'system managed size' (otherwise strange crashes or other unexpected effects can occur when an application such as Hauptwerk uses a lot of memory, even if the amount of memory used is less than the amount of physical memory installed in the computer).

[Anton Heger]

After regenerating a sample set data cache it has been found that sustaining long notes can cause sudden and severe audio distortion or a crash with certain sample sets (not all).

Martin

I just loaded a Zwolle organ with 4.2 GB of data for the first time.
I could cause HW hang now with a lot of stops on and very rapidly pushing a lot of keys....

Anton

[mdyde]

Hello Anton,

I just loaded a Zwolle organ with 4.2 GB of data for the first time.
I could cause HW hang now with a lot of stops on and very rapidly pushing a lot of keys....

To confirm, you mean that the crash happened when playing the Zwolle when the sample set cache had just been regenerated?

If so, please just try un-loading and re-loading it from cache once the cache has been regenerated (the work-around in the bug description) and let me know if that fixes it (I believe it will).

Thanks.

[Anton Heger]

Hello Martin,

Yes, that fixed it.

Maybe an interesting addition:
After the first load and after 10 or 20 times rapidly pressing the keys Hauptwerk crashes.
After reloading from the cache, and after 10 or 20 times pressing the keys very rapidly, the sound falls out and the organ became silent (because of the polyphony limitation mechanism?)
That does not occur after the first load. The sound remains 'full', and not limited, but with disturbings.

Anton

[mdyde]

Hello Anton,

After the first load and after 10 or 20 times rapidly pressing the keys Hauptwerk crashes.

I don't know for certain (I haven't had a chance to look properly into the bug properly yet), but that is probably just another symptom of the same problem, e.g. perhaps the blower noise sample has looped, or something like that. I'm sure it will be easy enough to fix when I'm able to look at it. It is usually easy and quick to fix bugs that can reproduced (as this one can).

After reloading from the cache, and after 10 or 20 times pressing the keys very rapidly, the sound falls out and the organ became silent (because of the polyphony limitation mechanism?)
That does not occur after the first load. The sound remains 'full', and not limited, but with disturbings.

Do you mean that it is behaving correctly, i.e. that it's behaving the same as Hauptwerk v3.00 did when played rapidly with large chords, or not?

If you believe it isn't working as it should (when it has been loaded from cache), please use 'File | Create diagnostic file' with the sample set loaded to email a diagnostic file to me so that I can see your settings etc. I'm definitely not aware of any issues with Hauptwerk v3.10's polyphony management system (v3.10 has been tested very extensively with other sample sets) and I've just checked here with another sample set and it's working as expected for me.

If necessary, I will install the Zwolle sample set on another PC to try specifically with that, but it will take some time. If you think there is a problem, please also tell me which version of the Zwolle (and which organ definition) you are loading, so that I can use that.

[Anton Heger]

Hello Martin,

Do you mean that it is behaving correctly, i.e. that it's behaving the same as Hauptwerk v3.00 did when played rapidly with large chords, or not?

I don't know. My update to V.3.1 was also an upgrade to the Advanced Edition.
I have this kind of behaviour seen before, however, and was not suprised by it. I think that was from the time I was trying the evaluation version. I can not remember that this sound drop ever occured in the Basic Edition.

Anton