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Reverb - 64 bit

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micdev

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Reverb - 64 bit

PostThu Jul 24, 2008 10:15 am

Since I upgraded to XP64 last week, I've been doing some researches on the web and read some of the old posts from these forums about available reverb's solution for XP64.

Since I never used the VST version of HW, used Sonar or Cakewalk I'm not really sure how everything works together but here is my understanding so far and the solution I'm thinking to use, so please correct me if necessary.

- Sonar 7 is XP64 compatible and can run on a computer with 8 gigs of memory.
- If I run Hauptwerk 64 (VST) inside Sonar, HW will be able to use the 8 gigs of memory for the sample (minus the OS overhead and space use by Sonar)

- I can load Pristine Space within Sonar and add effects to HW outputs. Even if PS is a 32 bit plug-in, Sonar has the possibility to run 64 and 32 bit plug-in (as reported by Martin on a previous thread)

So this would be the solution for a 64 bit environnement. Please help me confirm or correct my assumptions.

Thanks
François
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mdyde

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PostThu Jul 24, 2008 10:36 am

Hello François,

That's correct. 64-bit Sonar has special functionality to allow both 64-bit and 32-bit plug-ins to be used together at the same time.
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.
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Ken

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PostThu Jul 24, 2008 11:48 am

64-bit Sonar has special functionality to allow both 64-bit and 32-bit plug-ins to be used together at the same time.

Neat - but would using the 32 bit plug-in with 64 bit Sonar result in any kind of loss in quality or performance?

Ken
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mdyde

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PostThu Jul 24, 2008 11:57 am

Hello Ken,

Neat - but would using the 32 bit plug-in with 64 bit Sonar result in any kind of loss in quality


It shouldn't make any difference at all to quality. 32 vs. 64-bit relates to the CPU's instruction set - nothing to do with audio resolution/quality.

... or performance?


As a rule of thumb a 64-bit application/plug-in is likely to give about 20-25 percent higher performance than a 32-bit one. Hence a native 64-bit convolver would probably put a bit less load on the CPUs than a 32-bit one to do the same amount of processing work. But it shouldn't affect Hauptwerk in any other way.

The caveat is that, although I do have 64-bit Sonar 6.2 installed (which works fine with the 64-bit Hauptwerk VST plug-in) I haven't actually had time to try it myself with a convolver of any sort.
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.
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micdev

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PostThu Jul 24, 2008 12:43 pm

Ken, Martin,

Bitbridge (Sonar 32bit in 64bit environnement http://www.cakewalk.com/sonar/english/n ... rmance.asp) seems to be the way to go.

Sonar 7 Producer Edition includes Voxengo's "Perfect Space" convolver (a 64 bit version of Pristine Space with some other settings... http://www.cakewalk.com/sonar/english/n ... tspace.asp ) . I can't find any info if it is possible to import IR into Perfect Space but I guess so. ($349 comp up with rebate when filling the infos for the comp-upgrade)

Sonar 7 Studio Edition doesn't include this plug-in. $149 for the comp-up + discount.

So basically to get Perfect Space (and some other plugins that we don't really need with HW) you pay $200. Pristine Space is $119 but is 32 bits.... $80 for 64 bits... But wait there is more, Perfect Space is the "little brother" of Pristine Space, Pristine being a TRUE Stereo (read more and hear the difference at http://forum.cakewalk.com/tm.asp?m=1425 ... e&#1425285 ). Even if Pristine is 32 bit it seems better than Perfect Space.

So I guess that Sonar 7 + Pristine Space + VST HW IS the solution for 64 bit system.

François

P.s. Make me wonder why Voxengo didn't already produced a 64 bit version of Pristine Space....
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PostThu Jul 24, 2008 12:47 pm

I've been using a Lexicon external processor for adding reverb to my system so far, but have been monkeying around with the Pristine Space convolver used within Sonar. I have a 64 bit OS as well (Vista). I can say that setting up Pristine Space as a 32 bit plug-in within 64 bit Sonar works, but I have not been able to get the latency down to an acceptable level. So far I have been able to use it only to add reverb to previously recorded audio, not for live playing. It does sound great, though. Has anyone had luck bringing down the latency to acceptable levels?

Eric
Owner of an old Schober homebuilt, midified and Hauptwerkified.
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micdev

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PostThu Jul 24, 2008 1:16 pm

Eric,

Very interesting and puzzling... Right now I'm experimenting with Reaper + Pristine space on a P4 computer (use exclusively for that purpose. A mix of all of HW is sent to this computer) and I don't have any latency even if my set up is far from optimal.

All HW channels are send to an Aux-Send in HW. This Aux-send channel (from HW computer) is sent thru SPDIF out to the SPDIF In of my Reaper computer. Reaper applies reverb and send it to 4 speakers.

Did you change the latency in Pristine space? (I set mine to 256). Click on the "?" in the upper right corner of the PS window then select "Set Latency"

More infos at http://www.voxengo.com/doc/pspace/
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PostThu Jul 24, 2008 2:12 pm

A free solution for reverb under Windows would be to use Topten Software's Cantabile Lite.
Cantabile Lite was designed primarily for real-time playing of virtual instruments and effects.

http://www.toptensoftware.com/cantabile/

Cantabile can be used in conjunction with Red State Sound's RevolVerb Lite.

http://revolverb.hostrocket.com/

RevolVerb Lite is a free, real time convolution based reverberator.

Keep in mind, RevolVerb Lite is in its beta testing stage right now. So, you will have to work around bugs in audio interface compatibility, etc....

I currently use this combination with the Hauptwerk 3 VST plugin "On a 32 Bit Machine!", and it works quite well.
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PostThu Jul 24, 2008 4:30 pm

I'm putting both Hauptwerk VST and Pristine Space into Sonar on the same computer. I have lowered the Pristine Space latency setting but below a certain point it has no effect. Could be the way I have Sonar set up, or some other setting I need to find. Might give Reaper a try too. Anyway, I am sure learning a lot about routing audio!
Eric
Owner of an old Schober homebuilt, midified and Hauptwerkified.
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micdev

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PostThu Jul 24, 2008 4:49 pm

Eric,

Join the club! I've learn a lot lately.

According to Martin Sonar & HW Vst does work, but he didn't try it with a reverb plug in.

Unfortunatly Reaper is a 32 bit app...

Keep experiment with Sonar and let me know if you find a way to use it properly.

Btw, what kind of computer do you have (cpu, memory, vista or XP). Since I have a brand new Quad core Q9450 and 8 gigs of memory I might have the power to run Sonar + Hw + reverb plug in and your latency problem are cause by your computer.
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toplayer2

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PostSun Jul 27, 2008 6:36 am

micdev wrote:Unfortunatly Reaper is a 32 bit app...


François,

See this:

http://www.reaper.fm/

A lot of talk about 64 bits, but have you found that it will not run under XP64 / Vista64?

Joe Hardy
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mdyde

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PostSun Jul 27, 2008 7:17 am

Hello Joe,

I think you're confusing 64-bit signal resolution with 64-bit applications (CPU instruction set). Here's a copy of my reply to your other post on this subject:

To my knowledge (and reading those forum links and briefly reading the Reaper website), Reaper is a 32-bit application, *not* a native 64-bit application, i.e. it doesn't use the 64-bit CPU instruction set, can't host native 64-bit plug-ins or access more than 4 GB of memory.

Those posts are talking about 64-bit floating point, i.e. the audio resolution. 64-bit signal resolution and 64-bit CPU instruction sets are totally different things.
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.
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jo

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PostSun Jul 27, 2008 12:22 pm

Hello,
If I read well, there will soon be a possibility to use Rearoute on a 64bits OS. But it seems that it needs 64bits only plugins. I'm not sure there's a 64bits realtime reverb on the market yet.

Here is the latest changelog of Reaper (version 2.42):

ReaRoute: fixed some race condition issues, and enabled support for win64-Wow64 rearouting on x64 (expect an x64 rearoute.dll soon)



Jocelyn
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micdev

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PostSun Jul 27, 2008 1:06 pm

That's good news Jocelyn, but as you say there is no 64-bit reverb plug-in. Sonar with it bitbridge technology allows 32-bit plug-ins in a 64-bit environnement.
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jo

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PostSun Jul 27, 2008 4:35 pm

Hello,
The pre-release (non supported) versions of reaper are available here:

[url]
http://www.landoleet.org/
[/url]

From what I've read in the forums, some people are able to route audio between reaper64 and reaper32. This could be a solution.

Something else: on the download site, there's a rearoute64.zip. The readme file seems to indicate that you have to use it on a X64 OS, but that you have to use reaper32 (which accepts 32bits VST plugins !).

It's difficult for me to test, as I did not go (yet ?) x64.

Thought it could interest some adventurous HW users.

Jocelyn[/url]
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