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Wich Cavaille-Coll to buy?

Existing and forthcoming Hauptwerk instruments, recommendations, ...

Wich Cavaille-Coll to buy?

Postby Fazioli » Thu Sep 25, 2008 5:40 am

I'm planing to buy a French romantic organ sample-set, It will be one of the two larger Cavaille-Coll organs availlable, the Milan Audio one or the OrganArt one. On my first impression of those two sample-sets the OrganArt came out best, but I didn't spend much time with both of the organs so I hope users of both organs can help me out and give me some advice before buying.

Thanks!
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Postby [)Naeryl(] » Thu Sep 25, 2008 8:45 am

I use myself the Cavaille Coll of Metz; it is PERFECT for romantic/symphonic works because:
- the voicing is typically the Cavaille Coll sound (different from Aix)
- the excellent handling of multiple release allows you to do extrem staccati (despite the huge acoustic)
- the most glorious Tutti avaivable today (especially the Extended version, with 32' - "there is a beast under your fingers"!!).

Since it's release, the Metz Cavaille Coll is my favorite organ, so I would clearly recommand it to you.
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Postby Stefanussen » Thu Sep 25, 2008 11:06 am

I second everything Naeryl said, especially the Tutti!
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Postby Jan Škvařil » Thu Sep 25, 2008 11:11 am

Hi Fazioli, if you hesitate and have no hurry, wait yet a short time. In contrast to Aix, which I use and like, but which is more Ducroquet than Cavaille-Coll and in contrast to Metz Mutin, built in time when Cavaille-Coll was already dead, soon there will be "real" Cavaille Coll for HW3, which I am sure will satisfy you fully. Or, better, purchase all three ( Ducroquet, Mutin and Cavaille Coll) and compare. With best regards. Jan
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Postby imcg110 » Thu Sep 25, 2008 11:36 am

Jan Škvařil wrote:soon there will be "real" Cavaille Coll for HW3, which I am sure will satisfy you fully. Jan


Pray tell....which one, and who is to sample it?????
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Postby Anton Heger » Thu Sep 25, 2008 11:50 am

I have heard that Jiri Zurek is busy with an organ in Caen.
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Postby Jan Škvařil » Thu Sep 25, 2008 12:15 pm

:) :) :) It is really difficult to keep some secret in HW community. Anton is absolutely correct.
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Postby Stefanussen » Thu Sep 25, 2008 12:23 pm

I suppose that would make it this one?

Grand Orgue Cavaillé-Coll de L'Abbatiale St. Etienne de Caen

Edit: looks like a pretty meaty organ, specs: http://orgue.free.fr/caen.html
Last edited by Stefanussen on Thu Sep 25, 2008 5:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Stefanussen » Thu Sep 25, 2008 12:28 pm

I don't have any Sonus Paradisi sets. How do they compare with MDA and OAM in terms of quality?
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Postby imcg110 » Thu Sep 25, 2008 1:07 pm

Sonus Paradisi organs are excellent, but different (I have several). The wet dry mix is dryer, the organ is more "in your face". The quality of sampling is superb, I would go as far as to say I think Jiri captures some of the nuances of the pipes that others miss. The consoles are user friendly. His organ have an excellent feeling of spacial awareness without the need for millions of audio channels. I imagine it will sound authentic, but quite different from the Metz - I suppose we just have to await the news from Prague!! My only worry is that only about 50 out of the 89 registers are Cavaille Coll.
Last edited by imcg110 on Thu Sep 25, 2008 1:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby RoyKnight » Thu Sep 25, 2008 1:13 pm

Rob,

I have the Sonus Pardisi Zwolle dry. The quality of Jiri's sample sets is excellent. I bought the dry for several reasons. First, I took advantage of his trial offer for the Forcalquier Wet sample set. Although the reverb was superb, my MacBook would not handle it without breaking up, so I bought the larger Zwolle dry instead, and it works fine on my laptop. I use it for practicing the Baroque, since I can add as little or as much reverb as I want.

As you may know, playing this organ was the impetus for E. Power Biggs' crusade in the 1950's to rethink the design of American organs so that Bach could be played effectively on them. (more articulation and higher sounding ranks and mixtures)

At this point I have 4 major samplesets: (1) Ken Bales' St. George's Casavant, (2) Jiri Zurek's Zwolle Dry, (3) Milan's Masterworks Skinner, and (4) Vol. 1 of Milan's Bovenwerk - Kampen.

They are all of excellent quality, and they each have their own special features unique to the provider. Perhaps the greatest feature of Hauptwerk, is being able to play organs which authentically reproduce the repertoire of the several schools of organ composition. By the way, I haven't decided on a french romantic yet.

Roy
"Practice makes permanent"
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Postby Stefanussen » Thu Sep 25, 2008 1:45 pm

Iain,

If that is the organ in question (I don't think there are any other CC candidates in Caen,) I don't really see how it would be any more authentic than the Metz. It looks like many of those ranks may have been added after CC, not to mention the console has been replaced. So, I would tend to agree with your comments.

Roy,

Thanks for your comments. Do you know how the wet Zwolle sounds? I have decided to stick with wet sample sets for the moment. I spent a lot of time considering getting some sort of reverb solution, but in the end, I decided to hold out for the native convolver. With the recent announcement of accelerated HW development, it looks like that may become a reality sooner rather than later.

As you said, I think one of the best parts of Hauptwerk is that I don't have to compromise on playing the right music on the right organ. The more I play with my HW setup, the more I realize what a rare advantage this is. I've played on a lot of Rodgers and Allen organs, and they are sterile and cookie-cutter compared to the instruments I can play at home, which each have a very distinctive character. I play for my church, which has a 5 rank Schantz. For a 5-rank instrument, it does very well, but of course, I am still very limited tonally.
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Postby Franz64 » Thu Sep 25, 2008 2:12 pm

[quote="Stefanussen"]I suppose that would make it this one?

[b]Grand Orgue Cavaillé-Coll de L'Abbatiale St. Etienne de Caen[/b]

Edit: looks like a pretty meaty organ, specs: http://orgue.free.fr/a5o7.html[/quote]

I think that the correct reference for Caen organ is this:
http://orgue.free.fr/caen.html
or this one:
http://abbaye-aux-hommes.cef.fr/culture/musique01a.htm

with 49 stops, this is significantly larger than the Metz organ...

A few subjective notes of (possible) interest:
1) all "four fonds" are there, in the Grand Orgue (good)
2) only one mixture, the plein-jeu (surprising)
3) no nazard, no tierce (apart from those inside the cornets) (not-so-good, IMHO)
4) large variety of reeds, esp. in the Recit (good)
5) are there tremulants? (surprising if not)
6) a 32' in the pedal (good)
7) there are plenty of 16' in all manuals (a dark sound?)
8) does anybody known what Carillon III is?

Francesco
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Postby micdev » Thu Sep 25, 2008 2:27 pm

Francesco,

Here is the definition of the Carillon rank: http://www.organstops.org/c/Carillon.html
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Postby imcg110 » Thu Sep 25, 2008 2:33 pm

Franz64 wrote:I think that the correct reference for Caen organ is this:
http://orgue.free.fr/caen.html
or this one:
http://abbaye-aux-hommes.cef.fr/culture/musique01a.htm

with 49 stops, this is significantly larger than the Metz organ...


This sounds more like the spec I recall for St Etienne!! I would concur with Francesco's comments
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