Search:
Submit Search


Freiberg Organ Model released

Existing and forthcoming Hauptwerk instruments, recommendations, ...

Freiberg Organ Model released

Postby zurek » Wed Nov 12, 2008 9:02 am

I am pleased to announce that the Freiberg sample set has been just released.
Unfortunately, there are no demos which would present the final version. I hope to add some later. All the demo pieces on my web page are recorded with a preliminary version of the sample set. However, new short staccato releases were added to the final release, which greately improve the behavior of the short staccato notes. To get the idea, you can check the Listening Test web page, where the same recording was performed again using the final release of the sample set. Therefore, you can compare the testing pieces no. 3 and 4 with the newest recordings to hear the difference (especially heard in the quick chromatic passages). Anyway, the best way how to test the sample set is to order the demo version package, since only when you play the sample set yourself, it gives the complete idea of how it is done, surely better than any possible demo performance.

The demo package is distributed on one DVD (it is impossible to download it since it is one full DVD) and it contains 5 selected stops (Principal 8, Octava 4, Octava 2, Mixtur, Trumpet of the first manual) with slightly limited compass (without the lowest octave). This was necessary since I needed to fit everything on one single installation media and I still wanted to give as much stops as possible and all the versions of the sample set. So, these 5 stops are available in the dry, wet direct, wet diffuse and surround version in the demo package! Therefore, it is the best to test it to make good decision which sample set version (if any) is the most suitable for your particular setup.

All those who responded to the Freiberg Listening Test received already the e-mail message informing them how to get the 10%-20% discount which they deserve. If such message did not reach your mail-box, please, send a reminder to me. Thank you.
zurek
Member
 
Posts: 559
Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2003 9:38 am
Location: Prague

Postby bcollins » Wed Nov 12, 2008 3:20 pm

The demo package is distributed on one DVD (it is impossible to download it since it is one full DVD) and it contains 5 selected stops (Principal 8, Octava 4, Octava 2, Mixtur, Trumpet of the first manual) with slightly limited compass (without the lowest octave).


This is excellent!

I'd like to explain some of my previous comments from another thread a bit.

I am a bit on the fence regarding encrypted samples. I do support the rights of the folks who do all the hard work to protect their investment. Were I to sample an organ, especially one of significance, the thought might even cross my mind whether to protect it in some way.

I still may purchase this sample set. The fact that the "dry" sampling was done in front of the facade makes it extremely attractive to me. This is because even though the tails are trimmed, there should still be just a touch of reverberation in the speech portions of the samples. And as I have tried to make the case before, when installing a VPO in a large but relatively dry natural acoustic, samples which are too dry sound unnatural and electronic. It may be that the samples fit my needs just as they are.

The problem that I worry about is that the 2ft ranks have their tails trimmed too short (100ms including fade?). Whereas I have found 200ms to be optimal in the worship space at Zion. The high pitches die much faster in a heavily carpeted room even though it may be quite large. So for realism, they need just a smidge of help. This is not the case in a very reverberant space, or when adding reverb artificially. In those cases the higher pitches should be trimmed shorter.

But even if all the ranks of 2ft and higher are unusable to me, the number of 16', 8' and 4' ranks including a plethora of reeds makes this sample set a bargain on a cost per rank basis.

The demo package which includes ranks at 8, 4, and 2 ft, along with a strong reed should show me everything I need to know to make my decision.

Congratulations Jiri on the release of this sample set!
User avatar
bcollins
Member
 
Posts: 837
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2006 11:09 pm
Location: USA, WA, Spokane

Postby zurek » Wed Nov 12, 2008 4:18 pm

Thank you for your comment. Indeed, the best idea is to take the demo package, try it out and hear yourself if it is what you need/like or not.
zurek
Member
 
Posts: 559
Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2003 9:38 am
Location: Prague

Postby www.orgeljournal.de » Wed Nov 12, 2008 4:26 pm

Good news!

The extension of manuals and pedal compass is offered in another ODF.


I would like to play a practise (historic) organ. Please give any information about the extended compass! Thank you.

Best regards,
Matthias


__________________________________

Image

Hauptwerk-News for German readers
www.Orgeljournal.de
__________________________________
www.orgeljournal.de
Member
 
Posts: 118
Joined: Sun Dec 23, 2007 4:48 pm

Postby zurek » Thu Nov 13, 2008 3:26 am

You are very right Matthias! The compass is extended up to f (as in Zwolle) and the pedal also up to the f. But it is the extended version. If you wish to practise the organ in its historical form, you would like to use the original version without the extension (compass ending with a c in manuals and also in pedal).
zurek
Member
 
Posts: 559
Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2003 9:38 am
Location: Prague

Postby Johannes Sørensen » Sun Nov 16, 2008 7:00 am

On the site for the Freiberg organ under Sample Quality we read:
"Occasional multiple attack samples are used."
Is that the case for both the wet and the dry version?
Is it possible to elaborate occasional? - only some stops and/or a part of the compass? - and to tell a little about the grounds for the selection of where multiple attacks are used and where not?

Best regards
Johannes
Johannes Sørensen
Member
 
Posts: 219
Joined: Sat Jan 20, 2007 11:25 am
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark

Postby Johannes Sørensen » Tue Nov 25, 2008 2:56 pm

After I received the Freiberg dry organ model, I, as always when getting a new sample set, have listened to its sound and “investigated” it.

There is a thing that surprise me.
In Hauptwerk, Organ settings, Pipe and Rank voicing, Lo/Hi EQ: high frequency boost; I see that all the notes of all the ranks even the noise “ranks” are sat to +6db. That is the case for both the original and the extended version.
If I change the setting to 0db and later press the reset, the setting is back to +6db.
When the setting of this parameter for all the ranks is changed to 0db, I find the sound of the Freiberg organ model more pleasant.

What is the correct setting of this parameter as the starting-point, is it 0db or ..., for the Freiberg dry organ model?
Have you other, who have the Freiberg (dry) sample set, also experienced this +6db in high frequency boost, or is it something in my installation?
Do you have any idea why this automatic +6db setting?
Can something in the organ definition file cause a setting of this parameter otherwise than 0db?

Best regards
Johannes
Johannes Sørensen
Member
 
Posts: 219
Joined: Sat Jan 20, 2007 11:25 am
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark

Postby mdyde » Tue Nov 25, 2008 2:59 pm

Hello Johannes,

The sample set producer sets the default for that voicing parameter (being the value that Hauptwerk will default to on first load or if you preset the Reset button). Hence Jiri must have set the default to +6 dB.
Best regards,
Martin.

[Please use email or the Contact page if you need to contact us privately, rather than private forum messages.]

Image
User avatar
mdyde
Moderator
 
Posts: 10361
Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2003 2:19 pm
Location: UK

Postby Gert » Wed Nov 26, 2008 3:31 am

Hi all,
Last week, I made 38 recordings on the beautiful baroque Freiberg sample set (19 Wet diffuse, 19 same pieces, same registration Wet direct).
The difference between the 'Wet direct' and 'Wet diffuse' version is less than I expected.

See for recordings and a review: http://www.pcorgan.com/SampleSets1735FreibergEN.html

In my opinion, listening via Headphones to a 'Wet sample set' gave the most realistic result.
But after that, I'm very enthusiastic about the Surround mechanism; see the disadvantages of Surround on: http://www.pcorgan.com/Benodigdheden2EN.html#Surround

It is a tremendous improvement of the spacial feeling.
You experience that (a part of) the reverb reflections come from behind.

Some provoking statements (to stimulate reactions):
1) '16 bit -> 24 bit' (also 2 times memory increase as surround) is a smaller improvement than 'Wet -> Surround'.
2) 'for each manual own stereo channel' is a smaller improvement than 'Wet -> Surround'.
3) 'Splitting stops to different audio channels' is a smaller improvement than 'Wet -> Surround'.


Best regards,
Gert
http://www.pcorgan.com/indexEN.html
info@PCorgan.com
User avatar
Gert
Member
 
Posts: 256
Joined: Mon Nov 05, 2007 9:57 am
Location: Netherlands

Postby zurek » Wed Nov 26, 2008 5:44 am

Dear Johannes,
I read about the problem of the 6dB boost in the high frequencies in the user voicing. Indeed, if there is some high frequency boost, it is surely not intended by me! If it is really so (as Martin says) that the default value of the voicing parameter is set in the ODF, then it must be a mistake of the ODF and I will check that tonight. But from my past understanding of this feature of Hauptwerk, the ODF settings were not reflected in the user voicing screens in past versions of Hauptwerk and so, the two values (one from the ODF and the second from the voicing) would be added to give the final value. Maybe, it is not so and my understanding was wrong. In any way, as default, there should be NO high frequency boost in the sample set. If there is, and if it is caused by me (as it seems to be) then I will provide a new version of the ODF to solve the problem.

Jiri Zurek
zurek
Member
 
Posts: 559
Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2003 9:38 am
Location: Prague

Postby mdyde » Wed Nov 26, 2008 10:10 am

Hello Jiri,

If it is really so (as Martin says) that the default value of the voicing parameter is set in the ODF,


That's correct, and it's behaving as designed, i.e. the default is taken from the ODF. The EQ was a new feature in v3.00+. Here's the relevant entry from the v3.00 release notice (the Sample Set Creator's Guide also covers it in more depth):

ENHANCEMENT HW-000571: Voicing: additional per-pipe parametric lo/hi EQ (Advanced Edition only).

A new set of adjustments are available on the per-pipe voicing screen: 'Lo/Hi EQ: transition frequency (kHz)', 'Lo/Hi EQ: transition width (pct of trans freq)' and 'Lo/Hi EQ: high frequency boost (dB)'. These adjustments allow you to apply a simple low-pass or high-pass parametric EQ (filter) to the pipe, adjusting its balance between bass and treble. The transition frequency specifies the centre-point between the bass and treble bands. The transition width determines the steepness of the frequency response curve in the transition region between the bass and treble, and is specified as a percentage of the transition frequency. Generally it is best to avoid very low values for the transition width, since they will give a very steep frequency response and higher 'filter ripple' (an effect where the frequencies either side of the transition are boosted or attenuated excessively in a narrow band, compared to the rest of the frequency response). Equivalent new parameters exist for sample set producers in the organ definition format (Pipe_SoundEngin01_Layer table), and the default values for the user voicing EQ parameters are taken from those. Any adjustments to the user voicing EQ parameters override those specified by the organ's creator. Note that if the EQ's gain is set to any value other than 0 then approximately 30 percent additional processing overhead is incurred for the pipe, reducing the overall polyphony that can be achieved accordingly. Hauptwerk's polyphony management system automatically takes this into account at the pipe level, as with other real-time filters.


Hence you'd need to correct that in your ODF if it wasn't intended.
Best regards,
Martin.

[Please use email or the Contact page if you need to contact us privately, rather than private forum messages.]

Image
User avatar
mdyde
Moderator
 
Posts: 10361
Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2003 2:19 pm
Location: UK

Postby zurek » Thu Nov 27, 2008 7:10 am

There is now update to all the ODFs to the version 1.02 where the bug of +6dB boost of high frequencies was removed. In fact, I knew that the sample set sounds too sharp, but I thought this to be due to the aliasing feature which sometimes occurs in Hauptwerk. For this reason, I attenuated the higher aliquots in the original ODFs to compensate for this effect. However, now, that I removed the bug of +6dB high frequency boost, I also removed the high aliquots attenuation in the ODF. Now, the proper balance was achieved.
You can download the new ODFs from this location:
http://www.sonusparadisi.cz/organs/frei ... date.0.asp
zurek
Member
 
Posts: 559
Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2003 9:38 am
Location: Prague

Postby Johannes Sørensen » Thu Nov 27, 2008 11:51 am

Thanks for your open honesty and the rapid creation of the new ODF.

The new ODF is installed, and I like the sound much better both every single stop and more important there combinations.
Now the Freiberg organ model is not just an interesting experience – have never heard a Silbermann organ in the real world – now it really will be used.

Freiberg has become a nice sample set that can be recommended.

Best regards
Johannes
Johannes Sørensen
Member
 
Posts: 219
Joined: Sat Jan 20, 2007 11:25 am
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark

Postby zurek » Fri Nov 28, 2008 5:24 am

There is one more update of the ODFs of the Freiberg Organ Model. The 1.03 update includes the change of the Pedal coupler so that it reflects the real world "Bass ventil" behavior. The coupler does not pull the keys of the Hauptwerk, rather it draws directly the pallets of the division. Thus, if the Manual coupler is used in conjunction with the Pedal coupler, there is no interconnection between the Oberwerk and Pedal as in the real organ.
I am very grateful to all the users who reported the errors found in the ODFs. This is where the criticism of users becomes very useful since with this help of users the sample set can become better than its original release.
zurek
Member
 
Posts: 559
Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2003 9:38 am
Location: Prague

Postby micdev » Fri Nov 28, 2008 8:31 am

Jiri,

Thanks for the corrections. I do have one request that shouldn't be that hard to implement (ODF 1.04.. ).

To expand a little bit the set in the pedal division, would it be possible to have a "Bass ventil 2"... a pedal coupler between the Oberwerk and the pedal division, giving access to the Quintedana and beautiful flötes.

Just a thought

François
User avatar
micdev
Member
 
Posts: 1423
Joined: Sat Feb 09, 2008 10:24 am
Location: Canada, Quebec

Next

Return to Hauptwerk instruments

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 4 guests