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Strange Freiberg Happening (?)

Existing and forthcoming Hauptwerk instruments, recommendations, ...

Strange Freiberg Happening (?)

Postby Grant_Youngman » Mon Dec 22, 2008 12:38 am

I received the Freiberg (wet) last week, and have hardly played anything since. I REALLY! like this instrument.

Since I just received the sample set, it may have already had all of the latest (e.g. 1.03) updates applied. (don't know where to look to check that.)

But not being one to leave well enough alone, earlier this evening I downloaded the 1.03 update and installed it anyway, figuring it would do no harm, even though I have not observed any of the problems fixed in the updates.

Surprisingly, after doing that, the HW Tremulante was terribly messed up, sounding more like a 5 year old jumping up and down on a synth mod wheel than the nice tremulant in the initial install. On some stops (e.g., Trompete and 8' Octav Principal) almost a "thump" on each cycle. Very un-tremulant like. I didn't hear a change in the Schwebung, but since it has a relatively fast rate, it may not have been so obvious.

Just wondered if anyone else has observed something like this?

I completely uninstalled and reinstalled from DVD and the Tremulante was back to it's very satisfying self. So I'm not at all sure what happened ..
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Re: Strange Freiberg Happening (?)

Postby Stefanussen » Mon Dec 22, 2008 1:09 am

Grant_Youngman wrote:I REALLY! like this instrument.


I'm afraid I can't comment on the tremulant issue, but I would be very interested to hear what you think makes this sample set great!
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Postby Gert » Mon Dec 22, 2008 1:30 am

Hi Grant,
In general, the tremulants on 'dry sample sets' works better than on 'wet sample sets'. The tremulants, are in my opinion, not 'the best feature' of Hauptwerk.

Can you be more specific? In combination with witch stop is the tremulant "terribly messed up"?

I will have a check this evening what is specific for the combination 'tremulant - update 1.03 Freiberg'.

Regards,
Gert
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Postby Grant_Youngman » Mon Dec 22, 2008 1:12 pm

Gert wrote:Can you be more specific? In combination with witch stop is the tremulant "terribly messed up"?

I


As I said, I don't really know if this is something awry in 1.03 or if I just got the black bean when I put in 1.03. Without 1.03 installed on top of my sample set, everything appears to to be fine anyway.

I don't quite know how to describe the effect, but the Tremulante sounds like it's being driven more by a ramp waveform than a sinusoid or sloppy triangle waveform. Instead of a smooth wah-wah-wah-... it's more like a WAAAH-wah-WAAAH-wah-..... thing.

It isn't really combination dependent --
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Re: Strange Freiberg Happening (?)

Postby Grant_Youngman » Mon Dec 22, 2008 1:26 pm

Stefanussen wrote:
but I would be very interested to hear what you think makes this sample set great!

Adri posted comments here: http://forum.hauptwerk.com/viewtopic.php?t=4157 and mine are similar.

I like the beautiful plenums on both manuals, the articulation and especially the overall tonality.

Unlike Adri, I have been playing mostly on the Wet Direct version, which gives you a very close and upfront feel of the instrument while still having reverberant spaciousness and not being in-your-face dry. I've been stuck in a rut playing Bohm chorales with it the last few days, and they just seem to come to life in a new way, for me at least.

I agree with Adri's remarks about the Trompetes being a little too strong. I may cut the levels back a bit to see how that works. I assume that's just the the way the instrument is, and not a sample set issue, though.
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Postby Gert » Mon Dec 22, 2008 2:12 pm

Hi Grant,
I recorded a small piece with the just downloaded and installed 1.03 Wet Direct version of Freiberg.

http://www.PCorgan.com/mp3/FreibergDir1.03-AmazingGrace-Rohrflute8ViolaDiGamba8Tremulant.mp3

In my opinion it is not a strange Tremulant what I hear.

Is this sound different with your 1.03 version?
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Postby adri » Mon Dec 22, 2008 7:32 pm

I totally forgot about the upgrades;now I'm not so sure I should....


By the way, at what audio level output have you set the organ; it sounds way louder than mine.

I am now actually installing the direct wet version as well. Update (posted few hours later): Yes, it's also very nice, a little more direct, but still plenty of room presence left. Will be interesting to compare the two.

Concerning the loud trompets: Play e.g. Clerambault's Suites and you come to appreciate the "French" side of this organ; suddenly the trumpet seems just right (in e.g. a basse de trompette) and then that brought me to play some English voluntaries with the trompet and the cornet stop as well, and they come alive as well, revealing its "english" side.
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Postby Grant_Youngman » Mon Dec 22, 2008 11:39 pm

Gert wrote:Hi Grant,

Is this sound different with your 1.03 version?
Regards,
Gert


Yes, this sounds normal. What I experienced after putting up 1.03 on both the Wet Direct and Diffuse versions is quite different. I should have recorded a sample before reinstalling the set, but didn't. I'm going to try 1.03 again tomorrow and see what happens. If it's still funky, I'll post a short mp3.

UPDATE -- I didn't wait. I installed 1.03 on the Wet Direct, and everything now sounds fine. Still don't know why the problem occurred the first time, but it was either luck of the draw or just some mistake on my part ...
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Postby zurek » Tue Dec 23, 2008 3:59 am

I did not change the tremulants behavior through the various updates (1.00- 1.03), neither I changed any of the wave samples, so there cannot be any change in tremulants, I suppose.

The versions: who bought the sample set after the issue of the update, should receive already updated installation media. The exceptions are rare - for example buying the sample set from the reseller who has older installation media in stock.

The versions: unfortunately, the versions of the sample set are not easy to track in Hauptwerk for one simple reason: one sample set is formed of several (if not many) installation packages, ODFs and other organ components. EACH OF THESE COMPONENTS has its own version number!!! Therefore, it is not possible to say: "I have Freiberg version 1.03", since in reality, one single Freiberg sample set (Wet direct, for example) is formed of at least 3 installation packages, each having the version 1.00, and then of at least 2 ODFs, each having the version number 1.03... very difficult indeed.
However, you can check all your installed organ components when you install the sample set (it is written in the "version of the component" text box during the installation). Alternatively, when you already installed something, you can check its version by going to the Hauptwerk File menu, selecting the option of Un-installing components, and you have all your organ components listed in the left column, while their versions are to be read in the right "version of the component" text boxes. Those components, which are marked [Data] are the packages containing the sound samples, console pictures and such like, while those components which are marked [Organ] are the ODFs. So, in the case of Freiberg sample set, all the [Data] components should be of the version 1.00 while all the [Organ] components should be marked as 1.03.
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Postby Gert » Tue Dec 23, 2008 4:01 am

Hi Adri,

By the way, at what audio level output have you set the organ; it sounds way louder than mine.


In general the 'Master level adjust db' should be as high as possible, in ideal situation: 0 dB.
For the above small registration it can be 0 dB.
For the 'Freiberg Full organ' I need -20 dB.

That's why I like the Enhancement Request of Francois:
http://www.crumhorn-labs.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3915
For me the most wanted Enhancement Request for Hauptwerk.

Best regards,
Gert
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Postby mdyde » Tue Dec 23, 2008 8:53 am

Hello Jiri,

The versions: unfortunately, the versions of the sample set are not easy to track in Hauptwerk for one simple reason: one sample set is formed of several (if not many) installation packages, ODFs and other organ components. EACH OF THESE COMPONENTS has its own version number!!! Therefore, it is not possible to say: "I have Freiberg version 1.03", since in reality, one single Freiberg sample set (Wet direct, for example) is formed of at least 3 installation packages, each having the version 1.00, and then of at least 2 ODFs, each having the version number 1.03... very difficult indeed.


To ensure that only compatible versions of each component can be used together the intention is that the sample set producer always specifies the minimum required version of each data package in the RequiredInstallationPackage table in the organ definition. If the sample set producer releases an update to a data package that could break that compatibility then it needs to be designated (by the sample set producer) as a completely separate component (pcakage ID). I.e. Hauptwerk enforces that a user must always have compatible versions of all relevant components, provided that the sample set producer tells it which versions are indeed compatible. There's no way it would realistically be able to know that otherwise.
Best regards,
Martin.

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