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PAB Frozen?

Existing and forthcoming Hauptwerk instruments, recommendations, ...

PAB Frozen?

Postby fantapavela » Wed Jan 14, 2009 8:10 am

No new mp3 of PAB? neither on IA website nor on contrebombarde...

Cosa bolle in pentola? (What's boiling in the pot?)
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Postby gingercat » Wed Jan 14, 2009 9:34 am

I guess not enough of the people that normally put performances on ContreBombarde have bought the set yet.
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Postby fantapavela » Wed Jan 14, 2009 9:47 am

it seems that after some comments about pieces posted on contrebombarde, everything went off...

:-((
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Postby Stefanussen » Wed Jan 14, 2009 4:25 pm

Hi fantapavela,

I am hoping to post some recordings of PAB before too long. Right now it's a matter of finding the time and also finding a way to record output with reverb added.

I do agree that the PAB has gotten some incredibly harsh, undeserved criticism. I had my organ professor over the other day. He ran through his entire recital that he'll be playing on the Tabernacle organ on Sunday. I had done my best to match the Tabernacle's acoustics (~3.5s) before he arrived. He was very impressed, and when I explained to him some of the criticism that PAB was getting, he just gave me a puzzled expression and asked "What's not to like!?"
Rob Stefanussen
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Postby fantapavela » Wed Jan 14, 2009 4:50 pm

Hi Rob!

you are right indeed. The critics to the set were somehow unconsistent and ridiculous. To me the quality of the sound is really astonishing. We have got used to very wet sets, that I do like also, and we are not able anymore to welcome a semi-dry one. The need to add a reverb is for sure a major issue to non-computer-skilled people; nevertheless it allows us to use it in a more flexible way! Moreover, do we really need only historical instruments or we also need "good" new instruments?

Looking forward for your new demos!!! :-))

Ciao

Paola
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Postby cedric » Wed Jan 14, 2009 5:35 pm

Hi Fantapavela,

I have the pab and i can tell you i do love it and play it as much as time lets me.

I think there are reasons why it received all those hard criticisms.
It's a huge set for a current average computer configuration, it's a dry set (not popular on this forum, and will not be as long as there is no standard and easy way to apply a good convolution reverb), and it's an expensive one.
As computer confs grow up and convolution arrives on stage, these reasons will pass.
In my opinion, you spend some time with this set, and you know it's well worth its price.
I am sure it will have its deserved success, slowly but surely.

I suppose most of the current owners are a bit like me: enjoying the discovery of the instrument, and not thinking too much about recording.
For an amateur with limited technical skills, recording is a enormous and not-so-fun amount of work.
It's a thing to enjoy what you are playing live, and another to render a (often too) difficult piece without any wrong notes, with nice registrations, and some music in it.
I would love to record and post the pieces i currently work on (mostly Bach), i hope i find the time soon.

Plus, as Rob said, with a dry set, playing and recording requires different techniques.
I am more than happy with my 2 channels setup for live playing, but i am less satisfied with my convolution software when it comes to recording, and i don't want to put the money of a new set in an altiverb-like solution, knowing good things are currently developped, so i am still waiting for a good solution to that problem.

By the way, in case Martin reads this, it would be nice that the forthcoming native hw convolution can not only apply in real time, but also to recordings. I suppose that would mean hw should be capable of playing wav file, so not sure it's on the list.

Anyway, there are good organists owing the set (Rob and Joe, who recently offered us an amazing Franck's chorale), so everything is not lost, it will be heard !

Best regards
Cedric
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Postby fantapavela » Wed Jan 14, 2009 5:42 pm

cedric wrote:
By the way, in case Martin reads this, it would be nice that the forthcoming native hw convolution can not only apply in real time, but also to recordings. I suppose that would mean hw should be capable of playing wav file, so not sure it's on the list.


By the way, why future HW enhancements are not set in a road-map like in many others software?

Just curiousity...
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Re: PAB Frozen?

Postby Anonymus » Wed Jan 14, 2009 5:50 pm

fantapavela wrote:No new mp3 of PAB?


I'm working on some recordings. With a 10 second reverb (Zwolle IRs) :)

As for some critics: very ofen people do not understand the diference
in the intonation (or "character", or style!) of a big organ built specifically
for a dry acoustic. I my self made that error, trying to replicate in the
PAB the Cavaillé-Coll sound, in Mulet's Carillion-Sortie.

Or, another way to say this: I wonder how a Cavaillé-Coll would sound
in a dry place?? (I mean: a big one, I've played a very small one many
years ago and it's a different story, of course).

Like someone said: what's not to like in PAB?...

Best regards.

-AM

PS:

BTW I'm using 63 stops in a 3 Ghz quad-core with 8 GBytes,
using Perfect Space (64 bit version of Pristine Space) for
convolution reverb, under Sonar 7. It's working perfectly
(no glitches) even when making recordings.
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Re: PAB Frozen?

Postby Grant_Youngman » Wed Jan 14, 2009 9:47 pm

Anonymus wrote:As for some critics: very ofen people do not understand the diference
in the intonation (or "character", or style!) of a big organ built specifically
for a dry acoustic..


So don't knock a criticism by just knocking the critic. (This comment is not related to just this post)

I've been critical of some of the recordings of the PAB on Contrebombarde. I've heard numerous samples of this instrument I find less than convincing or satisfying. The problem could as well be less the instrument than it is the effects of the added reverbs. Nonetheless, I'm personally not tone deaf :)

But a hand wave basically stating that the critic " just doesn't understand the ... character", or whatever, implies also that the critic has no ears, and should just take up lawn mowing or something ... and I certainly beg to differ :)
Grant
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Postby Eyes » Wed Jan 14, 2009 10:17 pm

I have a confession to make:

From time to time I get a 'tutti craving'.

You know, like... LOUD with some chamades and thunder and more! Would it be possible for somebody who has the PAB set to post something on Contrebombarde that is...well...you know what I mean, I know I'm not the only one. I read somewhere, probably around here, that Virgil Fox sat down at an organ (not sure which), hit the Tutti button, and played full out for 3 hours. That's the kinda stuff I'm talkin' about, you know, the kinda stuff you reach for when your wife's not home.

'Rondo' by Bull anyone? Or perhaps Boelmann's Toccata? Go ahead, push it.

Man it feels good to talk about it. I enjoy the pensive and quiet stuff too, but sometimes you gotta rattle the china.

On a bit of a different topic/more serious note, I just got some wireless headphones and listen to a lot of music through them now. I notice a lot of posts on Contrebombarde has been compressed, ie: as the piece progressively gets louder the volume has been dropped every time. I'm assuming this is to accomodate the limitations of the mp3 format? Is it possible to record in such a way as to have a realistic volume throughout, or are some of the organs too dynamic?

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PAB Posting

Postby jcfelice88keys » Thu Jan 15, 2009 2:12 am

Hello Fellow Hauptwerkers,

I am off to the NAMM show in California, USA between Thursday and Sunday. When I return, I shall post more PAB performances. In particular, I shall post pieces that whose registrations will allow me to load stops in their full release versions, meaning ... less than my previous maximum of 74 stops at a time.

A few suggestions within this thread included the Bull Rondo and the Boellmann Toccata from Suite Gothique. Any other requests? I shall try to accommodate you.

... All beginning next week when I return home.

Cheers,

Joe
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Re: PAB Frozen?

Postby Anonymus » Thu Jan 15, 2009 4:23 am

Grant_Youngman wrote:The problem could as well be less the instrument than it is the effects of the added reverbs.


I think "my" convolution setup is working great with PAB,
stay tunned for some demos. But my point regarding *some*
critics was the problem of comparing different style instruments
and/or instruments in completly different acoustics. PAB is the
first of its kind for Hauptwerke, and it is the quality standard for
these type or organs in these types of rooms, right now. I hope
more of these will come in the future!

Regards.

-AM
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Re: PAB Posting

Postby fantapavela » Thu Jan 15, 2009 10:41 am

jcfelice88keys wrote:A few suggestions within this thread included the Bull Rondo and the Boellmann Toccata from Suite Gothique. Any other requests? I shall try to accommodate you.

... All beginning next week when I return home.

Cheers,

Joe


Zu-per!!!! Joe thank you very much!!!!
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Postby Sander » Thu Jan 15, 2009 8:12 pm

fantapavela wrote:
cedric wrote:
By the way, in case Martin reads this, it would be nice that the forthcoming native hw convolution can not only apply in real time, but also to recordings. I suppose that would mean hw should be capable of playing wav file, so not sure it's on the list.


By the way, why future HW enhancements are not set in a road-map like in many others software?

Just curiousity...


You can of course make a HW1 or CODM organ with one stop and one note from your WAV file and then import it to HW3. Or you can make one with all your favorite songs! Bachs 1st Trio Sonata on c1 and Boelmanns Toccata from the Suite Gothique on c#3
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Postby jfziehlke » Thu Jan 15, 2009 10:43 pm

To fantapavela's hope that HW convolution can be applied to pre-recorded as well as real-time performance, Sander suggests:
You can of course make a HW1 or CODM organ with one stop and one note from your WAV file and then import it to HW3. Or you can make one with all your favorite songs! Bachs 1st Trio Sonata on c1 and Boelmanns Toccata from the Suite Gothique on c#3


What an absolutely elegant, creative, simple and non-intuitive solution! I am absolutely delighted.

Jerry
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