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The Anloo Organ

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The Anloo Organ

Postby CHRIS 037 » Sun Dec 13, 2009 6:12 pm

Hello All,

Here are my findings about the Anloo sample set from Prospectum
:
Well, I can hardly tear myself away from playing this fine little organ!!!!

As with many of us, the money supply is pretty low these days. I thought, however, the price of the set was so reasonable that I couldn’t resist giving it a try. I’m so glad I did.

This organ, through multiple speakers, comes closer than any other so far in giving me the feeling that I am playing a real pipe organ here in my organ room. The samples are VERY clean and clear, and yet still retain that wonderful pipe noise, the chiff and air sounds that one wants for an up-close organ. Years ago I was allowed to play on a couple very small tracker practice organs at a university. These were two-manuals and pedal instruments with one flute rank per division. As you might expect, the sound was simply charming. This Anloo sample set gives me an identical sound. . . and then some, since the organ is much larger than those practice organs were.

The organ is the perfect size for my speaker set-up. I can route the entire organ to the six 12-speaker groups (plus pedal) and only have three ranks per group. That means, for the most part, that when playing three or four note chords, all pipes go to different speakers. This is where the multiple speaker arrangement really performs best! So, I can highly recommend this organ for those of us HW folks that use many speakers and want an up-close sound.

My first impressions were not quite so great, however. I loaded the organ into the groups with no reverb tail cuts. The sound was too hollow and unreal. The one or so second natural reverb was just too much. So then I reloaded with the reverb tails cut to #2, or about .15 seconds. That brought the pipes right into the room with me. Also, as always with multiple speakers, there needed to be a certain amount of editing. The Principal 8’ sounded less than appealing at first. But after editing and balancing the amplitudes of the pipes, the difference was amazing! How beautiful it is. It’s the same for all the other flue ranks. The flutes are wonderful, for example. I’m not quite as pleased with the reeds, though I think they come through the way they should for this 1700’s organ. (I am spoiled by the bright and brassy, yet smooth, French romantic reeds, I guess.)

Once the editing was done, the organ just sounds terrific.

Here are some other things that may interest HW users.

I’ve noticed some comments lately about the idea of multiple speakers in mono vs. speakers in stereo pairs. So, I set up my second Mac Pro to have six stereo channels plus pedal. I loaded the Anloo organ into it (14 speakers in seven stereo channels as opposed to the 80+ speakers in six-seven mono groups). There is a difference. I noticed right away that the low end of the keyboard 8’ ranks just didn’t have the fullness in the stereo set-up. Playing fifths for example in the bottom two octaves is a very full and clean sound with multiple speakers each taking separate pipes. But with the stereo arrangement, just the two speakers of a group had to reproduce all the notes. . . it just was not as full a sound. (I did try to edit using HW to get both computer organs to sound as identical as possible.)

I suppose it’s not a surprise that 80+ speakers will sound fuller than 14. Mostly I think because the sound is spread out so much more with the many speakers and each speaker is required to put out less sound.

But then, there’s this: With the stereo organ I could clearly hear that old bug-a-boo distortion with the thirds playing. I set the same registration up on two different manuals so I could compare the two set-ups. And, yes, in this case, the ‘C’ and ‘E’ in the octave below middle ‘C’ definitely had noticeable beats at about 5-8 per second with the stereo output (either 8’ principal or flute). The multiple-speaker output was completely beat free. As I played the two keyboards, I quickly came to realize that the many speaker output was much clearer and real sounding. The beating thirds were there in quite a few other places on the stereo-out keyboard. I think that until one can actually hear the difference, one doesn’t realize how nasty those beats can be, and how much more real the sound is without that.

Another observation: I found that the sound was much better when I set the temperament to original tuning. The organ sort of became more alive, it seems. One of the problems that some sample sets have is that when one cuts the reverb tails to get an up-close sound they sort of begin to sound like a pretty big accordion. Not the Anloo organ. It sounds like the real thing even with virtually no reverb added since all those pipe/air sounds are right in there.

Another indication that this organ set matches my output groups well, is that when building up to the full organ, things still sound clean and clear. I don’t think I’ve ever had a sample set where all the ranks blend together as well as this. The sound just gets bigger and louder as more ranks are added. . . I think that means that I am not saturating the speakers with too much signal output.

What a pleasure it is to play this organ! I guess I’m inspired enough to set up my recording mikes again and see if I can capture this sound. I think my only further desire would be to have a third manual. (Perhaps this organ set is a perfect one to use with the CODM to enlarge it a bit.) For now, I have the smaller manual on my SWELL and the main manual on the POSITIV and then use the Rodgers console couplers to get either, or both, manuals to the GREAT. Given the beautiful sound, this is plenty good enough!

Some might worry that the organ doesn’t sound like the original Anloo instrument. I think that when we run through multiple speakers, we do tend to sacrifice that, but we can use headphones if we want the original sound.

Leo Chris.
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Re: The Anloo Organ

Postby GDay » Sun Dec 13, 2009 6:31 pm

Hi Chris,
Thanks for your critique of the Anloo, particularly from the various aspects you mention. I ordered the Anloo Thursday night, and anxiously await the go ahead to download. Then the speaker challenge begins anew. Doubling my speaker set-up to 8 stereo pairs (main group, solo group, pedal group, and 16' manual group) has certainly complicated my life - why o why do we do these things? 80 speakers in 12 groups? Our prayers are with you . . .

Thanks again, your experience is pretty much at the far end, that's for sure, but what you discover is always instructive and useful.
G'Day

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Re: The Anloo Organ

Postby Jim Reid » Sun Dec 13, 2009 9:08 pm

So who sells the Anloo?

I can not find it anywhere....by vendor, by country, etc.

Obviously I am not looking at the HW instruments locator correctly.....
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Re: The Anloo Organ

Postby CHRIS 037 » Sun Dec 13, 2009 9:24 pm

Hi Jim,

The Anloo (Radeker & Garrels) organ is from Prospectum. Here is a link:

http://www.prospectum.com/en/start.htm

Look under organs.

Leo chris. :)
Last edited by CHRIS 037 on Sun Dec 13, 2009 9:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Anloo Organ

Postby micdev » Sun Dec 13, 2009 9:25 pm

Here you go Jim: http://www.prospectum.com/en/ordering/donations.htm

Have fun...
François
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Worldwide technical assistance, consultation and ready to play system.

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Re: The Anloo Organ

Postby CHRIS 037 » Mon Dec 14, 2009 12:45 am

Follow-up:

I have just been trying the Anloo organ through the second Mac Pro with a different speaker grouping. Instead of this: 6 stereo channels, 1 stereo channel for PEDAL, and 1 stereo channel for reverb (or 16 outputs) as mentioned above, I have tried this: one mono group of 12 speakers, 1 mono group of 2 speakers for PEDAL, and the 1 stereo out for reverb.

The result is really a fine sound. . . better than the stereo sound, IMO! Of course, with just the one group of 12 speakers I can’t expect the whole organ to sound as good as the larger number of output groups on the other Mac. However, I have decided that I can use this second Mac to provide the GREAT manual stops. The second manual is going to the pedals for now. That works quite well so long as I don’t use more than four or five ranks at a time on the GREAT manual. So now I do in effect have a three-manual Anloo organ. The sounds from the one group of 12 speakers seems just as clean and full as any group on the other computer.

I suggest if you are running a system with 16 outputs, you might try this arrangement and see if you feel that you get clearer sounds. The one downer is that there can be a bunch of editing to get the correct balance.

Leo Chris.
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Re: The Anloo Organ

Postby B. Milan » Mon Dec 14, 2009 1:38 am

I can not find it anywhere....by vendor, by country, etc.

Obviously I am not looking at the HW instruments locator correctly.....


Hello Jim,

This is because it hasn't yet been added to the instrument database on the Hauptwerk website. We aim to get that taken care of very soon. Sorry for the delay.
Regards,
Brett Milan
http://www.hauptwerk.com
http://www.milandigitalaudio.com
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Re: The Anloo Organ

Postby Jon Hammond » Tue Dec 15, 2009 11:53 am

Reading this string has created confusion. So here’s another experiment to seek out the best combination of mono and stereo. Setup four stereo pairs for the Anloo organ, then route all notes C-C#-D to the first pair in stereo, D#-E-F to the second etc. Load all sounds in stereo. This would preserve the stereo spread information but avoid having thirds combine electronically to form beats and nulls.
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Re: The Anloo Organ

Postby GDay » Tue Dec 15, 2009 9:20 pm

Hi Jon,
I didn't know you could route individual pipes like that - how is it done, I'd like to try that.
G'Day

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Re: The Anloo Organ

Postby jkinkennon » Tue Dec 15, 2009 11:18 pm

I'm always surprised when I hear about the objectionable beating thirds that vanish when individual notes are heard via separate speakers. I do agree that the mix in a single mono channel produces the most obvious beats. Minor thirds and sixths get some benefit from a C/C# split, but that would not seem to be the case for major thirds. In both cases a stereo image offers the ears two sets of phase relationships which will help mask the beats in many cases. In any case, the two notes will form beats in the air, not just in the electronics. For anyone having difficulty hearing beats that "mix in the air" I would suggest a little trick that sometimes helps this "aurally challenged" piano tuner. Try plugging one ear. If that doesnt help you hear the beats, then turn the head a bit or move a couple of inches back and forth until the beats are obvious. Remember that the reverberations within your listening room are working to mask the effect. My point is to demonstrate that the beats are there and can still be heard by trained ears. Also to point out one of the reasons we should avoid mixing stereo samples back to mono in multi-channel configurations.
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Re: The Anloo Organ

Postby CHRIS 037 » Wed Dec 16, 2009 3:08 am

Additional Comments:

For me it's like the difference between hearing a rank and its celeste rank all through the same stereo pair of speakers, then comparing that to separating the two ranks out to two separate sterero systems. When the "beats" caused by the pipes come from separate speaker systems, it sounds better to me----this is just my observation from trying it out.

So, I feel the same kind of improvement is to be heard when thirds (or other pitches) of the same rank are played through separate speakers. Of course I do hear "beats" but instead of them sounding like a sort of volume pulsing, it comes across as that neat "celesting" that pipes really do have. I haven't really been able to hear much of that sort of thing using only stereo channels.

On another subject: I just received the Rabstejn/Strelou organ from Sonus Paradisi. Again, the price was just too tempting. I haven't tried out the surround version so far. More about that some other time. But, I was right in thinking the dry version would be an interesting match to the Anloo organ. So, this evening I installed the dry Rabstejn on that second Mac Pro and voiced it to match the Anloo. The result was quite satisfying as a third manual! It's a somewhat smaller organ but does have some fine sounding pipe ranks.

I will say that I did try to use it first in stereo, as with the Anloo at first, and that the result just didn't have the realism I have gotten used to. But, when reloaded into the 12-speaker grouping, the much more real sound appeared IMO.

Leo Chris.
Last edited by CHRIS 037 on Wed Dec 16, 2009 11:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Anloo Organ

Postby mdyde » Wed Dec 16, 2009 7:29 am

Hello Garth,

Setup four stereo pairs for the Anloo organ, then route all notes C-C#-D to the first pair in stereo, D#-E-F to the second etc. Load all sounds in stereo.


I didn't know you could route individual pipes like that - how is it done, I'd like to try that.


Putting exactly four stereo audio outputs (i.e. a total of eight physical audio interface channels) in a group with the 'tone matching mode 1' channel allocation algorithm selected for the group would do that.
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Re: The Anloo Organ

Postby CHRIS 037 » Sat Dec 19, 2009 6:28 pm

For those who might be interested:

I have just uploaded a short demo of what the Anloo organ sounds like dry in my organ room. Keep in mind that so many things affect the sound with this sort of thing. I have positioned the mikes so as to get better stereo (I think) but their position closer to a wall may have added a heavier feel to the mid-bass. However, the beauty of the sample set as a dry, up-close one does come through, I feel.

http://www.contrebombarde.com/concerthall/music/1939

BTW: The CD that comes with this set with Harald Vogel playing this organ is really beautiful!!!! I guess you can't beat the sound of such an organ in its natural environment. I also happened to get the illustrated book that is offered with the set. The photos are great, but since I don't know Dutch, and my German is so rusty, I'm afraid I can't make very much sense out of the text. . . but no matter. . . This sample set is a great bargin! :D

Leo Chris.
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Re: The Anloo Organ

Postby pat17 » Fri Jan 15, 2010 3:37 pm

The Anloo Organ is a wonderful instrument. 8)

This is the first one I have selected to start my modest Hauptwerk project - a M-Audio keyboard and Midi interface working under a Mac Mini with a Harman/Kardon Soundstick II amplifier and 2.1 loudskpeakers. :wink:

After decades I couldn't play at all, I hope to regain soon a practice that will not betray the beauty of such an amazing organ! 8)
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Re: The Anloo Organ

Postby Jim Reid » Fri Jan 15, 2010 5:55 pm

In case you wondered, Adri tells me that Anloo is
properly pronounced An-low, not An-looooo.
He should know, he is Dutch.
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