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G. Silbermann - Freiberg Organ Model - version 2 released

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G. Silbermann - Freiberg Organ Model - version 2 released

Postby zurek » Thu Dec 30, 2010 5:22 am

The Silbermann organ Model of Freiberg was released now in the version 2. The improvements compared to the previous version are:

1) completely redesigned release handling. The release handling was criticised in the previous version – the response was not precise enough. This new version has completely redesigned release handling, which is more precise in the response to the organist.

2) elimination of the dominant early reflections. The glass wall inside the St. Petri church in Freiberg causes many unwanted early reflections which many users heared as disturbing. This version was therefore optimized for music use by eliminating the most dominant early reflections from the releases. The reverb is thus smoother and hopefully more musical.

3) The attack behavior improvements: a number of late or very late attacks of the pipes were corrected, again favouring the musical use of the sample set over the documentation. Thus, the pipe attacks respond more promptly to the organist, allowing for more precise playing.

4) The wet versions were incorporated into the surround version of the sample set. Also, only the slightly extended ODFs are now supported. This means greatly reduced number of ODFs needed for the sample set while the functionality is preserved.

5) completely redesigned virtual organ console, this time allowing for 3D vision of the drawstops, using the photo-realistic design. Courtesy of Francois Ratte.

6) the virtual organ console now includes dual stop jambs (left and right) for use with double touch screens. However, the layout of the drawstops is vertical. For this reason, the touch monitor must allow for rotation to the portrait view.

7) The ODFs are now prepared for the HW4, supporting all its user-settable features. Nevertheless, we will provide the ODF update later for HW4 to support the alternative screen layout for horizontal as well as portrait oriented LCDs.

The features and screenshots, as well as the demo perfromance may be found on the Sonus Paradisi web pages:
http://www.sonusparadisi.cz/organs/frei ... hots.0.asp


The existing users of the older versions of the Freiberg Organ Model may find friendly update prices for the new version. Updates to the HW4 version will be free of charge for all the users acquiring the v.2.
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Re: G. Silbermann - Freiberg Organ Model - version 2 released

Postby Fazioli » Thu Dec 30, 2010 7:14 am

Thanks for this! It sounds absolutely fantastic, i ordered the surround update one minute ago. :D
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Re: G. Silbermann - Freiberg Organ Model - version 2 released

Postby martinus » Thu Dec 30, 2010 3:36 pm

Surround update order placed!

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Re: G. Silbermann - Freiberg Organ Model - version 2 released

Postby grobgedackt » Fri Dec 31, 2010 8:57 am

The update price is really friendly. I placed my order just a minute ago.
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Re: G. Silbermann - Freiberg Organ Model - version 2 released

Postby ljhutchens » Fri Dec 31, 2010 11:45 am

You have done it again! You are my favorite sample set producer. The organs are always worthy of being sampled and the care that goes into the actual sampling is superb. My favorite thing about your sample sets is how they feel when you play them. The instruments do exactly what the player wants, like any great pipe organ. These latest improvements will make this hard to beat for performing any baroque music. Lastly, my impression of the earlier Freiberg sample is that it is the closest instrument available that sounds like the Flentrop that E. Power Biggs recorded on. Thanks for providing so much pleasure to the Hauptwerk community.
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Re: G. Silbermann - Freiberg Organ Model - version 2 released

Postby John_Bex » Sun Feb 20, 2011 5:44 pm

I have just connected a second amplifier for surround sound for the Freiberg V2 set. It is really something this Silbermann set! I enjoy it very!
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Re: G. Silbermann - Freiberg Organ Model - version 2 released

Postby marcus.reeves » Mon Feb 21, 2011 3:24 pm

I'd be very interested to hear user's opinions of this organ as I'm in the market for a new baroque set.

I already own the Grosshartmannsdorff set and enjoy playing it, but the licence forbids public performance. My primary concern is the amount of reverb in the Freiburg set: my Chapel has a generous acoustic of about 2 - 3 seconds when empty, or virtually no reverberation when full. The Pipeloops set and Haverhill OIC both sound great in the building because they have very little reverberation.

I've listened to samples of Freiburg online, but I'm concerned that the wet version will be too wet or the dry too dry. (I've found wet organs sound very strange in a room with a good acoustic, even weirder when the room is full when the organ reverberates virtually, but the singing doesn't.) I've downloaded the trial version, but I haven't yet had a chance to try it out in situ; I'll do that this week.

Does anyone have any experience of using this set in a large room or have any general opinions on the quality of the set?
Best wishes,
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Re: G. Silbermann - Freiberg Organ Model - version 2 released

Postby polikimre » Mon Feb 21, 2011 3:33 pm

How about the Freiberg wet direct set?
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Re: G. Silbermann - Freiberg Organ Model - version 2 released

Postby marcus.reeves » Mon Feb 21, 2011 3:40 pm

polikimre wrote:How about the Freiberg wet direct set?


That's certainly an option. Have you any idea of the reverberation time on this set?
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Re: G. Silbermann - Freiberg Organ Model - version 2 released

Postby polikimre » Mon Feb 21, 2011 5:03 pm

I do not own the set, but a demo is available, or you can just download some wav files of it to your church pc and hear it in the space.
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Re: G. Silbermann - Freiberg Organ Model - version 2 released

Postby marcus.reeves » Tue Feb 22, 2011 6:59 am

Thanks for your help, Imre. I'll do as you suggest later today.
Best wishes,
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Re: G. Silbermann - Freiberg Organ Model - version 2 released

Postby zurek » Tue Feb 22, 2011 7:44 am

In my (perhaps not very) humble opinion, it is always good to provide such an organ to the church which corresponds to its size! If you have a cathedral, then, of course, build a large 3-4 manual organ. However, if you have a chapel of limited size, please consider providing it with an instrument of suitable size, i.e. with a small chair organ of about 5-8 stops. Instead of having huge sound, try to play with the voicing of single pipes and ranks to make each rank speak with strong character. Then, the sound will fit into the venue. This is valid also for virtual organs, such as Hauptwerk consoles. Otherwise, the sound will never get naturally fitting.
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Re: G. Silbermann - Freiberg Organ Model - version 2 released

Postby ajt » Tue Feb 22, 2011 9:01 am

The size of the organ isn't the problem Marcus is referring to, it's the size of the acoustic with a wet sample set. He's trying to make any organ he gets sound convincing in there; not too wet, but not totally dry either. I have a similar problem; too dry and it sounds awful because there isn't any acoustic to blend the sounds before it hits the congregation, too wet and it just sounds wrong. The size of the organ doesn't come into it - I can think of many places that are vast but have completely dry acoustics, and many places that are very small that have very wet acoustics.
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Re: G. Silbermann - Freiberg Organ Model - version 2 released

Postby marcus.reeves » Tue Feb 22, 2011 11:03 am

zurek wrote:In my (perhaps not very) humble opinion, it is always good to provide such an organ to the church which corresponds to its size!


I couldn't agree with you more. When I refer to a Chapel, I'm actually referring to a space somewhat larger than some churches. I refer to it as a Chapel because it is attached to a school, and therefore serves as such. The room is quite large and seats 350 people daily. Haverhill OIC Extended sounds superb both when the Chapel is full and empty. I believe this to be due to the fact that the Chapel's acoustic dominates when it is empty, and the Haverhill acoustic comes into play when the Chapel is full, but without being obvious. I'm fortunate that all the organs I have tried so far sound really good, but those with longer acoustics are sound obviously from elsewhere or are muddied by a combination of sampled and real acoustic. I hope that make sense!

I'm really interested in the Freiberg set. I tried recordings and playing the demo version of both the Wet Direct and Dry versions this morning. The Wet version was still too wet, and it's decay was noticeable after that of the Chapel. The Dry version did sound good in the building, but I'm still concerned that it might be too dry when full. (If I want to play a Baroque voluntary at the end of Mass, I would also accompany the final hymn on this sample set to avoid switching and there being a delay between hymn and postlude.)

I wonder whether the Wet version with truncated releases might be the way forward? Jiri, I'd welcome any thoughts you may have. Also, what's the best way to contact you to apply for a discount? I'm a music teacher and church organist.

Thanks for all your help.
Best wishes,
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Re: G. Silbermann - Freiberg Organ Model - version 2 released

Postby zurek » Thu Feb 24, 2011 3:13 am

Well, difficult job. I cannot say I am an expert on these questions, but I have some limited experience. Here some generic suggestions when placing a virtual organ into a church.

1.) Consult the textbooks of acoustics of the organbuilding to determine the size of the virtual organ suitable for your church. There are rules to follow when determining how large the organ should be to suit psychoacoustically the venue.

2) Use as many speakers as possible. You will like to use at least two pairs of speakers for each division. Why two pairs? The speakers have rather limited directivity in emitting the sound. Pipe is emitting the sound more evenly into the space. Therefore, we found out in practice, that it is worth doubling the speakers, each heading in different direction (like 90 degrees apart or so), or some speakers heading upwards, some to the front, it needs experimenting. Well, a cheap trick but it is prooved that it works...

3) if you have even more speakers, then use the more, splitting the ranks among the speakers. Trial and error will be necessary to determine the best. For example, if there are two 8 feet ranks, I would send the first one into one pair of speakers while the second into the other pair of speakers.

4) Always use only the dry sets. Even where there is little reverberation, the dry sound is suitable, since when used for accompanying another instrument or a congregation; weird results would be obtained with the wet sound: the congregation or a violin would be heard without reverb, while the organ would have the reverb from the speakers...

5) Well, some would be tempted to say that dry organ sound awkward. It is well known phenomenon and the textbooks on the organbuilding acoustics say that organ sounds well in at least 2 seconds reverberation... Well, if you do not have it in your chapel, then there is no help. If you would build a real organ in that church, it would have no reverb anyway. The only possibility to get the most out of the sound is smart voicing. I know from the experience, that even organ in a dry environment can sound well if voiced with attention. Every stop then needs real strong character to please the ears of the audience. The chiff must be expressive and the higher harmonics and high pitched stops must be in balance with the lower, the organ must be less shouting, while sound more tender overall. A lot of work, but rewarding. In a reverberant space, almost all the voicing errors are masked by the reverberation...

6) Always try to place the speakers as high as you can. Look to the example of real organs, they are many times seated very high up in the church, some divisions right below the ceiling. If you can reach that height with the speakers, give it a try.
Also, you may try heading some of the speakers not to the public, but to the ceiling or in other direction to obtain special spacial effects. When we made a sound tests in a big church in Prague, we found out that positioning the speakers near the ballustrade of the organloft was producing bad sound. When we positioned the speakers more to the back of the organloft, the sound was more natural.

7) I found out that it is often necessary to boost the high frequencies very much when using speakers (monitors), I am not speaking now about the PA boxes!!! The high frequencies disappear very soon in normal speakers since they are usually made for near listening. Hence, you need to boost the heights enormously (12 dB is not much in these cases sometimes we went to almost 20 dB on high boost! Well, of course we blew up the tweeters very soon, but this is the life, the replacement tweeters are not that expensive) to get the natural "air" hiss through the pipes.

8) Be ready to voice the virtual organ a lot. The sample sets are ready for acoustically perfect "environment" (such as headphones). When using the samples through the speakers in an environment which is not acoustically perfect (also in many living rooms!!!), you will have to voice. It is then as if you were given the rough pipes and these always need to be voiced for the given space!!! This is true also for a real organ. When a real organ is moved from one church to another, it always needs a careful revoicing by the organbuilders. You will be the organbuilder for your virtual organ in this case! That is really a creative job which I myself love.

However, the result may sound very different from the original organ. That is normal. The character of the organ will change with the church. When we installed the Freiberg dry sample sets in one church in Prague, we had to revoice it a lot: and when we arrived at a sound which was CONVINCING for the given space, it did not sound as Silbermann, rather, it was more like a symphonic organ. But the most important aspect was that it sounded convincing, as if real pipes were used. The mixtures had to be attenuated, while the large pipes needed boosting, also the high pitched stops needed to sound more transparent (i.e. reducing overall volume while boosting higher harmonics).

9)Be ready that the organ may not sound convincing in all spots of the church. This is normal, every space has its "sweet spots" and also the bad ones.

Well, to voice an organ is a real art. Organbuilders must be very experienced to achieve well balanced sound in the given space. Do not expect too much of yourself if you are not trained expert in organ voicing...
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