It is currently Thu Mar 28, 2024 3:31 am


Franck Choral No 3 Registration

Playing or learning the organ, hints, tips and tricks, registrations, techniques, fingerings, ...
  • Author
  • Message
Offline
User avatar

marcus.reeves

Member

  • Posts: 246
  • Joined: Tue Jul 20, 2010 6:00 am
  • Location: Hampshire, UK

Franck Choral No 3 Registration

PostTue Jan 29, 2013 12:59 pm

I've been trying to register Franck's Choral No 3 authentically on Metz, according to Franck's instructions. I'm using the Wiener Urtext edition. Basically, I'm a little confused about when to use the 4ft, 2ft and mixture ranks. Here's a link to a copy of the music on IMSLP; the registrations are mostly the same.

http://erato.uvt.nl/files/imglnks/usimg/8/89/IMSLP03936-Choral_No.3_in_A_Minor_Franck.pdf

For example, on page 10: "GO Jeux de fonds de 8p. Claviers accouples". At this point, I have the four foundation stops of the great drawn with the positif and recit coupled with the relevant stops drawn, as previously stipulated in the piece. The next instruction on page 11: "ajoutez anches recit". At this point, do I add the 4', 2' and mixture ranks as well or just the reeds?

Similarly, on page 12 the instruction is to add the positif reeds and 16' foundation stops. Is this only on the positif (where there are none or on the great as well? The next instruction is to add the reeds on the great and pedal. Likewise, I'm wondering if this includes the 4', 2' and mixture ranks? Without them, it sounds a bit bass heavy, but I'm wondering if that's what Franck intended.

I've noticed similar discrepancies in Guilmant's March on a Theme by Handel, which I'm currently learning. Is it French practice that when the reeds are added, the accompanying 4', 2' and mixtures are added too?

Any help is greatly appreciated!
Best wishes,
Marcus
Offline

Sander

Member

  • Posts: 418
  • Joined: Sun Oct 07, 2007 5:08 pm
  • Location: Assen, NL

Re: Franck Choral No 3 Registration

PostTue Jan 29, 2013 1:20 pm

As far as I know, the Jeux d'Anches includes the 2ft and mixture ranks. It is interesting to see if the 4ft ranks are not used yet if you should add them, but I think you should. You may want to look a bit at Franck's own organ or the organ the piece was intended for on which Anches are available there and sometimes you may want to skip a 16ft or Mixture rank.

If it says Jeux de fonds et Jeux d'anches de 8 p. it means that you only should use the 8ft reeds. During the piece you will remove anches (Otez) and later get them back (ajoutez). This is done by the lever at the bottom of your screen. As it never says that you should add more anches (change registration) for this Choral it seems most logically to just add those 8 ft anches back, by using the lever. At your taste, you may want to add some extra stops for extra effect, but it is not prescribed here. In principle, the ff and fff only indicates the swell and not the overall volume (which may want you to pull extra stops).

It is always good to check some recordings of other people to check what is done there.
Offline
User avatar

marcus.reeves

Member

  • Posts: 246
  • Joined: Tue Jul 20, 2010 6:00 am
  • Location: Hampshire, UK

Re: Franck Choral No 3 Registration

PostWed Jan 30, 2013 9:26 am

Thanks for the reply.

I've been doing a bit more reading, and it seems that you are correct that the Jeux d'Anches includes the 2ft and mixture ranks unless otherwise specified as in Franck's opening registration mark.

Comparing Franck's organ at St Clotilde is also interesting - where Franck's organ had a small recit and large positif, Metz is reversed. It's probably possible to recreate Franck's registrations more effectively having discovered this so that will certainly help. I'm still slightly unclear about whether to add all the swell reeds in places. However, I think you are probably right that it only means the 8ft reeds which are brought on and off using the combinaison pedal.

I'm much clearer about this now, but I think I'll need to tweak things a bit using couplers.

Thanks for your help!
Best wishes,
Marcus
Offline

Sander

Member

  • Posts: 418
  • Joined: Sun Oct 07, 2007 5:08 pm
  • Location: Assen, NL

Re: Franck Choral No 3 Registration

PostWed Jan 30, 2013 11:20 am

It's quite interesting to have another look at Franck's organ. I have Caen myself and sometimes forget about the ranks that Franck did not have.

Most notably:
No diapason and Flute at the Recit
No 16" reeds at Recit and Positif
And interestingly: sometimes the 4ft Flute or Octave is part of the Anches and will only be pulled with the Combinasion.

The remaining question is: if Franck would have had a different organ to play on, like Metz or Caen, would he have happily used the missing stops? And are all these pieces just written for St. Clothilde or with a different/bigger organ in mind?

It also appears to me that the extenden Positif of Metz comes closer to the organ of St. Clothilde.
Offline
User avatar

marcus.reeves

Member

  • Posts: 246
  • Joined: Tue Jul 20, 2010 6:00 am
  • Location: Hampshire, UK

Re: Franck Choral No 3 Registration

PostWed Jan 30, 2013 7:23 pm

Sander wrote:It also appears to me that the extenden Positif of Metz comes closer to the organ of St. Clothilde.


It does and doesn't. I listened to Langlais playing the third choral earlier. The Positif at St Clothilde is much more powerful in a way that it isn't at Metz. Metz lacks a full foundation on the Positif, whereas Clothilde lacks it on the Recit. It's quite interesting to compare!

I tried registering the Choral using only Franck's registrations earlier and it works. At no point does he suggest a dynamic louder than forte so I'm assuming he doesn't require anything other than 16' 8' foundations and 8' reeds in the manual. I'll try and do a recording and post it on Contrebombarde.
Best wishes,
Marcus
Offline

craigpfeiffer

Member

  • Posts: 83
  • Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2008 12:58 pm
  • Location: Carmichael, CA

Re: Franck Choral No 3 Registration

PostFri Feb 01, 2013 12:29 pm

There was a discussion of this back in '98-'99 on https://list.uiowa.edu/scripts/wa.exe?A0=PIPORG-L. It makes for interesting reading if you are a Franck fan. You can find the posts by searching the archives. I don't think you need to register to do this.
Craig
Offline

jharmon

Member

  • Posts: 272
  • Joined: Sun May 31, 2009 6:13 pm
  • Location: Fernandina Beach, Florida

Re: Franck Choral No 3 Registration

PostMon Feb 04, 2013 1:57 am

I have struggled with registration for this choral as well. I had three different editors notes to follow and thought it might be solved by acquiring a copy of Dupre's edition (not cheap and not easy to obtain). He actually calls for an initial registration of Fonds 8,4 and Anches 8,4. All other editions suggest just 8'. I prefer the sound of the 8' only, but find two other editions simply calling for "Full" foundations and reeds at the opening. Even though Franck left registration instructions, registration for his pieces can still be puzzling. Does anyone know a location for the original stop lists of the various Cavaille-Coll organs?

John
Offline

Sander

Member

  • Posts: 418
  • Joined: Sun Oct 07, 2007 5:08 pm
  • Location: Assen, NL

Re: Franck Choral No 3 Registration

PostWed Feb 06, 2013 5:44 am

Franck was organist in St. Clothilde. The organ has been changed a few times, but most his musique was played on the 1859 version. I'm not sure if he wrote some of these pieces specifically with other organs in mind.

Organ website: http://www.orgue-clotilde-paris.info/co ... index.html

Return to Performance practice

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests

cron