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Memorization

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caper1

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Memorization

PostFri Feb 14, 2014 9:15 am

When I go to organ concerts these days I notice most of the younger organists, such as Paul Jacobs, Felix Hell, and others memorize their whole program. The older ones do not. It seems they are teaching students to memorize their pieces more than formerly. Just how these performers can remember such intricate and complicated work is mind-boggling to me. Does anyone know the techniques being used to teach this skill, are there new ways of learning how to do it? As an older player, I think it would also be good for the aging brain to memorize more stuff. But is it more difficult for us old fogies?
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telemanr

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Re: Memorization

PostFri Feb 14, 2014 9:35 am

When I taught students I used to tell them that memorizing something like a poem for instance was something anyone could do rather easily. After all anyone can memorize the first line with no problem. Then add the next line. Try reciting both. No problem. Add another line...and so on. Incremental memorization works. Then sleep on it. The next day you will have to backtrack but it will be faster to get back to where you were the day before. And so on. Eventually you will have it solidly in hand.
And it works for music just as well. Problem is we haven't been asked to do this very often in the past.
Rob Enns
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amun

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Re: Memorization

PostFri Feb 14, 2014 12:26 pm

You might like to take this link as a starting point to inform youself about a very systematic approach to the "Fundamentals of Piano Practice" memorizing included.
http://www.pianofundamentals.com/book/en/1.II.12

Rgds
Amun :wink:
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profeluisegarcia

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Re: Memorization

PostFri Feb 14, 2014 6:15 pm

Joyce Jones -a great organist and human being- who may manage billions of notes in her brain and heart, gave us during a POE+++ encounter the next ELEMENTS OF MEMORIZATION:

1. MOTOR MEMORY
a) Involves: fluente coordinatios and finger memory
b) achieved by: drill, repetition, disiplined practice
c) often the first way we memorize

2) AURAL MEMORY
a) the practical ear - remembers and directs fingers
b) the artistic hear: evaluates and relates material: creates and expresses

3) VISUAL MEMORY
a) Inner visualization - the mind´s eye
b) outer -the keyboard patters

4) THEORETICAL-ANALYTICAL MEMORY
a) Structural -form, phrasing, motives, sequences
b) linear - horizontal flow and relationshiops
c) tonal - key, modulation, key relationships
d) harmonic -chords, progressions, cadences
e) inetrpretive - markings of scores, mood and coloring

5) MEMORY TECHNIQUES
a) conceptual memory
b) away from the keyboard
c) "stations"
d) hands apart (countrapuntual)
e) concentration under pressure.

Very interesting…but I prefer enjoy playing rather than spend a lot of time memorizing pieces, unless I really need to memorize it to play decently (as some sections of BWV 552 fugue)
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caper1

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Re: Memorization

PostFri Feb 14, 2014 7:14 pm

Thanks for your response to my questions about memorization. They really get deeply into the art of performance and the relationships between the mental and physical aspects of playing piano/organ. I'm still astounded by the ability of the performing artists to do this, especially on the organ where we are dealing with multiple manuals, pedalboard, stops etc. etc. (at least if the piece is memorized we don't have to worry about also turning pages!)
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cdekter

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Re: Memorization

PostFri Feb 14, 2014 7:38 pm

If I may I'd like to add my own personal experience to this. Due to undiagnosed eyesight problems throughout my teens, I never learned to sight-read particularly well. It's improving now that I wear corrective lenses, however I have found over the years that I rely heavily on memorisation to learn pieces. To me, being able to play a piece from memory is just a natural outcome of having learnt the piece. Conversely, if I can't play it from memory (and 'by ear' playing is a big component in this), I generally can't play a piece very well even with the sheet music in front of me.
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1961TC4ME

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Re: Memorization

PostSat Feb 15, 2014 12:27 am

Interesting thread. I too am a lousy sight reader so I don't just sit down and play a piece, I have to learn each piece. If someone were to point to notes on a sheet of music and ask me to quickly say what notes they are I am slow, so I've also learned to memorize the notes on the keyboard based on what I see on the music even though I may not readily say that's a D or an E and so on, for me the location of note on the keyboard comes first, identifying as a D and so on comes after. I think playing from memory is something some are gifted with and some are not, for me I feel it can sometimes be somewhat of a curse. Some can hear the music in thier head and some can not, I can, but in order to play any piece I also have to hear it a number of times first, so I also memorize the tune in my head which greatly helps me. One teacher I had said playing from memory and by ear was fine just as long as I played the piece correctly, another I worked with said they couldn't play even the most simple of tunes without the music in front of them and could not play anything by ear no matter how simple. It's kind of hard to explain but since I have to learn a peice, it all becomes very mechanical for me, kind of like a process of movements I memorize. I remember finger placement and each move coming up, kind of like performing a task in a certain sequence. If I screw up though, even with one finger off, the whole works can go down in flames and I can sometimes have considerable trouble getting myself back on track. Once I learn a new piece I have to play it exactly the same way each time, this is something my teacher really stressed, and I'd be willing to bet those young students have been taught the same way, the major difference being they're waaay better players than me in the first place. :lol: For me anyways, once I've played a piece enough times and the same way each time, I can pretty much toss the music off to the side. Over time however, if I don't play the piece on a regular basis I slowly forget how to play it and I have to start all over, reading the music again comes slow, but the memory of how to play it comes back rather quickly and sometimes I only have to read part of the piece and it all comes back. Like I say, somewhat hard to explain, everyone is different in this regard I guess.

Marc
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Neil P

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Re: Memorization

PostSat Feb 15, 2014 1:43 am

This is a very interesting thread and a subject I have never really thought very much about.
Perhaps I should!!!
I have been playing piano for over 50 years and the organ, off and on, for around 25. Certainly when I was younger I found myself memorizing pieces without really thinking about it but it is a rather different story now. I have always been a good sight reader and have often thought that with the organ in particular, it would be much better play from memory, thereby removing two actions (reading and page turning) from the process, but these days I am too lazy to follow it through!!! I sit down at the organ looking forward to the practice session ahead and instead of starting with a piece or pieces that I probably CAN play from memory, I just want to play the music and it is far easier to put the music in front of my eyes and get on with it. This is obviously just down to self discipline and laziness.
A symptom of this laziness is that I sometimes find my mind wandering as I am playing - I have never found this a problem with the piano but with the organ, with so many more things to think about, it is disastrous.
I think my problem is partly due to the fact that I am not disciplined at memorizing the music.
To explain.
On the piano, once I had learned a piece thoroughly, it pretty much became automatic and mechanical and I often found myself giving a creditable performance but at the same time thinking about what I might have for dinner or things I must do later in the day. On the organ this just does not work. Reading music comes very easily and find myself going into automatic mode with the resultant musically chaos that soon follows, mainly mistakes on the pedals but also registration errors.
This topic has made me think that my problem is that once a piece is learned, I am not really reading the music, it is there as a comfort blanket although I have not properly committed it to memory either. The added complications of organ playing demand far more of my concentration - particularly as I get older - perhaps the solution is increased self discipline to concentrate on playing AND to learn pieces from memory to get rid of the comfort blanket effect of the sheet music.
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1961TC4ME

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Re: Memorization

PostSat Feb 15, 2014 11:03 am

Neil P wrote:This topic has made me think that my problem is that once a piece is learned, I am not really reading the music, it is there as a comfort blanket although I have not properly committed it to memory either. - perhaps the solution is increased self discipline to concentrate on playing AND to learn pieces from
memory to get rid of the comfort blanket effect of the sheet music.


Neil, for me you hit the nail on the head! This is exactly what my problem can be if I don't dicipline myself to fully learning the piece. If I do discipline myself I really don't need the music in front of me anymore, however like I mentioned if I do screw up, my problem is even if the music is in front of me I can't quickly find the spot on the music, correct the problem and move on because I know for a fact I'm not really reading the music.

One thing my original teacher really beat into my head was to "learn" each piece and not just play it, he said to play it exactly the same each time, same fingering, and not just however I feel like. He said it was important to use the exact same fingering each time, number above the notes if I have to or that I would continue to make mistakes. He said early on in his organ days when he went to school for it that he had a bad habit of being sloppy, what he meant by that was he didn't do things the same each time and it was a major problem for him. Once he began to write down the fingering and play a piece exactly the same each time then things improved dramaticly for him, and this is what he taught me as well and it has certainly helped.

I'd guess based on ones sight reading proficiency and the situation at hand that memorization and the need to varies. If you're a really good sight reader, then memorizing for the average church organist is probably not much of a concern and there's not much need to worry about it. Perhaps in the case of the young organists mentioned, they are trained to be proficient at sight reading and memorization as well. In my case I have to rely mostly on memorization because my sight reading is much too slow. I work out a piece a little at a time, then eventually put it all together by memory with little need of the score in front of me after awhile. I don't play at church, just at home for personal satisfaction, if I were to play at church I'd be in real trouble as sight reading for me is the lesser concern, in order to play at church I'd have to completely retrain myself. Since I probably will never play at church I don't worry much about the sight reading part and rely on memory. So, I think much of it depends on the situation. I just wish I was good at both, maybe it's time I discipline myself more on the sight reading part. Some day I'll get around to it! :wink:

Marc

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