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CODM release static?

Using the CODM to create your own organ definitions, exchange CODM organ definitions, ...
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CHRIS 037

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CODM release static?

PostTue Jan 27, 2015 7:23 pm

Hi Martin,

I finished a nice CODM instrument that uses wet samples. I'm not sure that I am using the release samples correctly. The whole thing sounds great on my old Dell---clear and nice reverb decay. But, when I move the same CODM to the Mac Pro, I get crackling and static occurring as the releases are done. I've tried all the various combinations of which releases to use, but everything gives that crackling.

I would use the PC but it's RAM is so small I can only get 5 - 10 ranks in there at a time. The whole organ does load in the Mac with 8 GB to spare---but there's that bad noise on all the stops, even the percussive ones that have no releases. Evidently, the noise comes at the end of the percussive file.

Would you have an idea of what's going on?

Thanks,
Leo Chris. :?
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Re: CODM release static?

PostTue Jan 27, 2015 11:23 pm

More info:

I loaded the Caen surround (front) set into the Mac Pro that crackled (OS X Lion). No crackling at all. It seems to happen only with the CODM organ.

Now I have loaded the same CODM file into my second Mac Pro (OS X Mountain Lion). No crackling!
The entire file loads and plays just fine. It seems to take up a bit less than 7 GB, while the Lion version left a bit over 8 GB. I don't know if that's significant.

Fortunately, after some days of effort on the CODM organ, I can at least enjoy my composite organ on the OS X 8.x Mac Pro. It will be sad too though, if it can't be made to work well on the other Mac, which is set up much more conveniently for recording.

Leo Chris.
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mdyde

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Re: CODM release static?

PostWed Jan 28, 2015 7:15 am

Hello Leo,

(I assume that both Macs are running the same, up-to-date, version of Hauptwerk, otherwise that might conceivably account for a difference.)

Just to clarify, the ranks in question are taken from the Caen v2 Surround sample set? (I don't think I actually have a copy of the final version of that, so we'd potentially need to contact Jiri Zurek to get a testing copy if we need to look into this, which might take a few days.)

Does your CODM organ definition also use ranks from any other sample set? (So as to determine what I would need to get and set up in order to be able to load your ODF.)

Do you hear the static noise if you hold down, then release, just a single key, with just a single stop drawn? Do most stops/keys have the same issue, or just a few? Does it only happen with the default (held-note) release, or also with the short-note (staccato) releases?

If you force the organ's cache to regenerate (e.g. by loading it once via 'Organ | Load organ, adjusting rank audio/memory options/routing') does that appear to change or eliminate the issue?

Are you loading the ranks at approximately their intended pitches, or re-pitching them drastically?

From your description it sounds rather like the releases are being loaded in such a way that they might play past the end of the WAV files (e.g. if a WAV cue point, or loop, is incorrect in the files, or specified/compiled incorrectly in the ODF), resulting in whatever arbitrary data happened to be in memory being played/cached. Hauptwerk has built-in mechanisms to try to detect and correct those types of issues, but perhaps that isn't always working with these particular samples and the CODM settings you're using with which to load them.
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.
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Re: CODM release static?

PostWed Jan 28, 2015 9:01 am

Here is more info, Martin,

Both Mac's are running the same version of HW (4.1.1.012). I even un-did that work-around you sent me and replaced all Caen and Zwolle ranks that had sample and release extensions that didn't match. I used samples set versions 2.0 rather than the newer 2.5 from Sonus Paradisi.

So, the three main sets that I used are: the Hereford, the Caen v.20, and the Zwolle v 2.0.

There is static on all ranks, sometimes louder and longer than others, not depending on the rank. It varies on the same rank too. Sometimes there is static as the key is pressed, but mostly it comes after the key is released, after a bit of a delay, which I assume is the time the wave file runs out. The static is there with short and longer held notes. I have not found any keys and stops that don't have this static.

I have tried various re-loadings---same result. All ranks but one (as I recall) are loaded at their normal pitches, no re-pitching.

I'm listing some lines in case I'm using the CODM incorrectly:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Here are the CODM lines for a Hereford rank:
<Samples_InstallationPackageID>000973
</Samples_InstallationPackageID>

<Samples_MainSampleFileFolder>HerefordGreatOpenDiapason2
</Samples_MainSampleFileFolder>

<Samples_RelSampleFileFolderIfRelSamplesStoredInSeparateFiles>Y
</Samples_RelSampleFileFolderIfRelSamplesStoredInSeparateFiles>

<Samples_RelSampleFileFolderIfRelSamplesStoredInSeparateFiles>Hereford-GreatOpenDiapason2
</Samples_RelSampleFileFolderIfRelSamplesStoredInSeparateFiles>

<Samples_ShortNoteReleaseSampleFileFolderIfAny>Hereford-Great-OpenDiapason2/Release1
</Samples_ShortNoteReleaseSampleFileFolderIfAny>

<Samples_MaxNoteTimeMsForShortNoteReleaseSamplesIfAny>200
</Samples_MaxNoteTimeMsForShortNoteReleaseSamplesIfAny>

<Samples_MediumNoteReleaseSampleFileFolderIfAny>Hereford-Great-OpenDiapason2/Release2
</Samples_MediumNoteReleaseSampleFileFolderIfAny>

<Samples_MaxNoteTimeMsForMediumNoteReleaseSamplesIfAny>500
</Samples_MaxNoteTimeMsForMediumNoteReleaseSamplesIfAny>
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here are CODM lines for the Caen:
<Samples_InstallationPackageID>000396
</Samples_InstallationPackageID>

<Samples_MainSampleFileFolder>pipe/go/Montre8
</Samples_MainSampleFileFolder>

<Samples_RelSampleFileFolderIfRelSamplesStoredInSeparateFiles>Y
</Samples_RelSampleFileFolderIfRelSamplesStoredInSeparateFiles>

<Samples_RelSampleFileFolderIfRelSamplesStoredInSeparateFiles>pipe/go/Montre8/rel99999
</Samples_RelSampleFileFolderIfRelSamplesStoredInSeparateFiles>

<Samples_ShortNoteReleaseSampleFileFolderIfAny>pipe/go/Montre8/rel00160
</Samples_ShortNoteReleaseSampleFileFolderIfAny>

<Samples_MaxNoteTimeMsForShortNoteReleaseSamplesIfAny>160
</Samples_MaxNoteTimeMsForShortNoteReleaseSamplesIfAny>

<Samples_MediumNoteReleaseSampleFileFolderIfAny>pipe/go/Montre8/rel00500
</Samples_MediumNoteReleaseSampleFileFolderIfAny>

<Samples_MaxNoteTimeMsForMediumNoteReleaseSamplesIfAny>500
</Samples_MaxNoteTimeMsForMediumNoteReleaseSamplesIfAny>
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here are CODM lines for the Zwolle:
<Samples_InstallationPackageID>000856
</Samples_InstallationPackageID>

<Samples_MainSampleFileFolder>pipe/bp_front_praestant8
</Samples_MainSampleFileFolder>

<Samples_RelSampleFileFolderIfRelSamplesStoredInSeparateFiles>Y
</Samples_RelSampleFileFolderIfRelSamplesStoredInSeparateFiles>

<Samples_RelSampleFileFolderIfRelSamplesStoredInSeparateFiles>pipe/bp_front_praestant8/rel99999
</Samples_RelSampleFileFolderIfRelSamplesStoredInSeparateFiles>

<Samples_ShortNoteReleaseSampleFileFolderIfAny>pipe/bp_front_praestant8/rel00140
</Samples_ShortNoteReleaseSampleFileFolderIfAny>

<Samples_MaxNoteTimeMsForShortNoteReleaseSamplesIfAny>140
</Samples_MaxNoteTimeMsForShortNoteReleaseSamplesIfAny>

<Samples_MediumNoteReleaseSampleFileFolderIfAny>pipe/bp_front_praestant8/rel00380
</Samples_MediumNoteReleaseSampleFileFolderIfAny>

<Samples_MaxNoteTimeMsForMediumNoteReleaseSamplesIfAny>380
</Samples_MaxNoteTimeMsForMediumNoteReleaseSamplesIfAny>
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

For now, I'll switch over to the newer Mac for this, since it does work Ok. It is the eight-core one and probably can do a bit better job on this large organ (over 160 straight ranks, 16-bit, 44.1 KHz).

Maybe there is hope for the older Mac, too(?).

Thanks,
Leo Chris. :)
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mdyde

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Re: CODM release static?

PostWed Jan 28, 2015 10:10 am

Thanks, Leo.

(On the Mac with the problem:)

The same problem definitely occurs with all of those different sample sets? (It seems highly unlikely that it could be related to the contents of the samples, given that some are from a different sample set producer.)

How about if you load the ExampleCustomOrgan6-StAnnes-WithAllFrills example custom organ (which uses the St. Anne's samples)?

How about with the standard (non-CODM) St. Anne's organ definition?

How about with the standard (non-CODM) St. Anne's 48 kHz organ definition? (From your results my suspicion would be that perhaps it's actually some kind of audio problem with that Mac generally, rather than anything specific to the CODM per-se.)

CHRIS 037 wrote:Sometimes there is static as the key is pressed


Can that occur with just a single pipe (key/stop) sounding, even if no others have sounded since you loaded the organ (i.e. to try to eliminate the possibility that the static is the result of a previously-played note)?

I see nothing obviously wrong in your CODM Rank entries (although I haven't tried making a CODM ODF using those specific ranks from those specific sample sets).
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.
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Re: CODM release static?

PostTue Apr 14, 2015 12:38 am

New info update:

I have just discovered that the static I was getting was not a problem with the Mac Pro or HW. :oops:

I was getting it from the small audioengine DAC that I was running the Mac optical output through. When I happened to try a different DAC there was no static when pipe samples stopped playing.

If I had just tried that way back, I could have saved myself a whole lot of hassle! It is a big relief to find that the rest of the equipment is working fine. :)

Leo Chris.
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Re: CODM release static?

PostTue Apr 14, 2015 3:33 am

Thanks, Leo.

Glad to hear it's resolved now.
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.

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