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customdisplaykeyboardstyle

Using the CODM to create your own organ definitions, exchange CODM organ definitions, ...

customdisplaykeyboardstyle

Postby chr.schmitz » Wed Sep 09, 2015 3:26 am

Hello,

I am currently diving into the secrets of Hauptwerk CODMs.

The XML ObjectType „customdisplaykeyboardstyle“ asks for different graphic files for different keys (9 different key types for naturals):

CF, D, EB, G, A
Sharp, WholeNatural
First DA, First G, Last DG, Last A

Can anyone explain, why D, G, and A are treated differently? And, why First DA and First GA, as well as Last DG and Last A are also treated in a different way, respectively?

I can see only four different key types in naturals:

A natural without any sharp to the left or to the right (e.g. last C in keyboard with 61 keys).
A natural with only a sharp to the left (E and B).
A natural with only a sharp to the right (C and F).
A natural with sharps to the left and to the right (D, G and A).

Furthermore, there are two special cases, which can be represented by one of the above listed keys:

First DA and First G are the same as CF.
Last DG and Last A are the same as EB.

Although this scheme is extremely flexible, it does not seem to allow to create keyboards with keys, which are not parallel. When creating a photo realistic console, keys are never optically parallel. However, this seems to be possible, when editing the ODF directly, where each single key of a keyboard is represented individually.

Thank you very much for any clarification in advance!

Best regards,
Chris
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Re: customdisplaykeyboardstyle

Postby mdyde » Wed Sep 09, 2015 4:51 am

Hello Chris,

chr.schmitz wrote:an anyone explain, why D, G, and A are treated differently?


If you look at those keys on a real keyboard, they are very slightly different, in that the widths of the insets for the surrounding sharps are slightly different on the left and right sides for Gs compared to As, whereas the insets are equal for a D.

chr.schmitz wrote:And, why First DA and First GA, as well as Last DG and Last A are also treated in a different way, respectively?


For the same reason, i.e. the widths of insets of the neighbouring sharps.

chr.schmitz wrote:I can see only four different key types in naturals:

A natural without any sharp to the left or to the right (e.g. last C in keyboard with 61 keys).
A natural with only a sharp to the left (E and B).
A natural with only a sharp to the right (C and F).
A natural with sharps to the left and to the right (D, G and A).

Furthermore, there are two special cases, which can be represented by one of the above listed keys:

First DA and First G are the same as CF.
Last DG and Last A are the same as EB.


Not quite!

chr.schmitz wrote:Although this scheme is extremely flexible, it does not seem to allow to create keyboards with keys, which are not parallel. When creating a photo realistic console, keys are never optically parallel. However, this seems to be possible, when editing the ODF directly, where each single key of a keyboard is represented individually.


Even having one up/down image per key can't perfectly handle images with perspective, since with perspective the appearance of each key also needs to depend on the states of its two neighbours, as well as its own state. I.e. for a truly photo-realistic perspective rendering you would actually need six images (and states) per key (in most cases). I think a few sample sets do go to those lengths, but it makes things very complicated in the organ definition, and others approximate a perspective rendering with just two states.

Perspective key renderings aren't possible in the CODM, since it's intentionally designed to be reasonably quick and simple to learn and use, whilst being flexible enough to create professional-quality organ definitions. St. Anne's doesn't have perspective key rendering (for example), but it does have a virtual console that gives a 'photo-realistic' impression overall, and works well aesthetically and functionally, I feel.
Best regards,
Martin.

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Re: customdisplaykeyboardstyle

Postby chr.schmitz » Wed Sep 09, 2015 5:14 am

Hello Martin,

thanks for your rapid response - as always :-)

Don't understand me wrong! I am absolutely amazed, how all these issues are addressed in both, the CODM and the ODF. I have to perform some measurements on my console at home ;-) I really never noticed, that the widths of the insets are slightly different...

Again, thank you very much for your comprehensive explanation!

Best regards,
Chris
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Re: customdisplaykeyboardstyle

Postby mdyde » Wed Sep 09, 2015 5:18 am

Thanks, Chris.

You're welcome.
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Re: customdisplaykeyboardstyle

Postby RichardW » Wed Sep 09, 2015 1:31 pm

This used to be a popular "Pub Quiz" question here in the UK: "How many shapes of white keys are there in a typical octave on a keyboard?"

Most people will think: One with cut-out on the left, one with a cut-out on the right and one with a cut-out on both sides - so the answer is three.

However, the real answer is seven. They are all slightly different.
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Re: customdisplaykeyboardstyle

Postby ldeutsch » Thu Sep 10, 2015 12:47 am

When I was in college, I had a Yamaha Electone organ for a while in addition to my old Rodgers. The Yamaha indeed had only four types of natural keys. It was evidently a cost-saving measure that Yamaha tried for a while. Because there keys were molded from plastic, it reduced the number of distinct parts required to assemble an organ.

Although I could easily play on these slightly strange keyboards, I could notice the difference.

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Re: customdisplaykeyboardstyle

Postby chr.schmitz » Thu Sep 10, 2015 3:39 am

It is really amazing! Even after many years of touching keyboards, I never noticed these differences :o

I checked, how sample set producers deal with this issue. And this is very interesting: some sample set producers just use the 4 (major) different key types, others use the 7 (or sometimes 7 plus 4) key types, IA uses uses in some of their sample sets even the six pictures (states) per key!

Chris
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Re: customdisplaykeyboardstyle

Postby engrssc » Thu Sep 10, 2015 4:24 am

ldeutsch wrote:When I was in college, I had a Yamaha Electone organ for a while in addition to my old Rodgers. The Yamaha indeed had only four types of natural keys. It was evidently a cost-saving measure that Yamaha tried for a while. Because there keys were molded from plastic, it reduced the number of distinct parts required to assemble an organ.

Although I could easily play on these slightly strange keyboards, I could notice the difference.


Recently on another Forum there was this question, maybe a similar (real life or better said real organ) situation?

September 2 at 8:06am

Johannus question.... I'm filling in for a church that has this instrument in the States .. I noticed while I was practicing my stretch/ reach of my fingering was off and I kept missing notes is the keyboard bigger in some way? I can sit at any other keyboard blind folded and don't miss a note but this instrument I can't put my finger on it lol literally what say ye?


Just going a little bit off topic below:

I'm not (really) suggesting the above to be an excuse for missing notes now. :roll: But there definitely is something to be said about playing other than AGO spec pedal boards. (And to think I used to play Hammond flat pedals.) Come to think of it, I never saw many (actually any) Hammond organists use the right foot for anything except "riding/pumping" the (single) expression pedal even Ethel Smith.- remember her?

Rgds,
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