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Notes out of order in CODF

Using the CODM to create your own organ definitions, exchange CODM organ definitions, ...

Notes out of order in CODF

Postby r_o_b_w » Thu Oct 27, 2016 8:19 pm

Hi all,

I'm just starting out with creating a custom organ definition for myself and a friend. I'm trying to pull ranks from the Milan 3/31 Theatre Organ set and the Neil 3/35 sets. I thought I would just try to get two ranks (one from each set) working first and then use what I learnt from that to create the rest of the file. I have successfully got both ranks working from my console (my console runs on Uniflex). The Milan set is perfectly fine however with the Neil Jensen set all the notes seems to be out of order (except one octave) in a very random way. Some notes which are side by side play the same note but come from different speakers. The settings I used under "rank" are identical between the two sets.

I have tried the following:
- Checked the order and labelling of the files in the original installation package (all correct)
- Tried another rank in the Jensen set and it does the same thing
- Checked and also changed settings to do with pitch and pipe placement on chest etc and reloaded (completely) the ODF in Hauptwerk - repeated approx 20 times making and saving changes each time with no success.
- Checked settings in original ODF installation package however some parameters are no longer used
- Tried different midi channel just incase
- Search in this forum and found similar issues mentioned but with no solution

The ODF that I am using is a copy of the very simple first CODF St Annes. Because I run Unifex I only need the very basics setup i.e. Ranks, Trems, Division & Enclosure.

Any thoughts as to what might be causing this?

Rob Wetherall
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Re: Notes out of order in CODF

Postby mdyde » Fri Oct 28, 2016 6:12 am

Hello Rob,

I've just tried a quick test in the CODM with the Neil Jensen 3-11 Open Diapason rank (package ID 595, folder 'OpenDiapason') and I can confirm that some of its samples do indeed sound at the wrong pitches for me, so I think those sample files must have incorrect pitch information stored within them. Hence in its current form unfortunately it doesn't appear that the sample set (or that rank, at least) is fully compatible with the requirements of the CODM.

Perhaps in the released version of the sample set's organ definition those files weren't actually used/referenced (with their neighbours being used instead and re-pitched in real-time), or perhaps the released version of the sample set's organ definition has pitches specified manually for some or all pipes (instead of reading the pitch values from the sample files).

If the number of virtual pipes that sound at the wrong pitches is small, and if the remainder do sound at exactly the right pitches, then you could potentially just delete the sample files that sound at the wrong pitches (in a copy of the rank's folder in a package of your own), then re-load (=re-compile) the CODM organ definition (with the virtual rank pointing to your copy of the folder), which would cause Hauptwerk to skip the 'missing' sample files and automatically re-pitch those notes from their nearest 'good' neighbours.

Failing that, you would probably need to contact Neil Jensen for advice.
Best regards,
Martin.

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Re: Notes out of order in CODF

Postby r_o_b_w » Fri Oct 28, 2016 7:06 am

Hi Martin,

Thank you for your detailed response and also trying it for your self! Makes perfect sense what you are saying as I was really scratching my head as to what else would be causing it.

I'll have a think about which way to go. Might try your suggestion with deleting the offending notes (after copying them into another folder).

Regards,

Rob
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Re: Notes out of order in CODF

Postby mdyde » Fri Oct 28, 2016 7:38 am

Thanks, Rob.

You're welcome. Hope you manage to find a suitable work-around.
Best regards,
Martin.

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Re: Notes out of order in CODF

Postby ReinerS » Sat Oct 29, 2016 5:07 am

Hello Rob,

to add to Martin's reply:
I just checked the xml of the original ODF of Neil Jensen's set (I created the ODF for him many years back, that's why I have the unencrypted version):

The set is designed using the "assume all samples are tuned perfectly to 440 Hz equal temperament" option. Hence all "sample" entities in the ODF specify the pitch at which the pipe is supposed to speak by means of Pitch_RankBasePitch64ftHarmonicNum and Pitch_NormalMIDINoteNumber attributes. Neil made sure that all samples are tuned correctly, but I suppose did add the correct pitch information into the sample files.

Not knowing the CODM format I cannot tell you however if this option can be used with it.

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Re: Notes out of order in CODF

Postby mdyde » Sat Oct 29, 2016 5:13 am

Thanks for the update, Reiner.

ReinerS wrote:Hence all "sample" entities in the ODF specify the pitch at which the pipe is supposed to speak by means of Pitch_RankBasePitch64ftHarmonicNum and Pitch_NormalMIDINoteNumber attributes.


There aren't equivalent per-pipe/per-sample attributes available in the CODM, so that approach isn't directly compatible with it, I'm afraid.
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Re: Notes out of order in CODF

Postby mdyde » Sat Oct 29, 2016 5:27 am

P.S. To add to my previous reply:

However, if all of the samples are tuned in A-440/equal according to the note names in their filenames, then you just need to set the following CODM attribute and Hauptwerk will assume A-440/equal:

Rank.Samples_RankBasePitch64ftHarmNumIfAssumedTunedToConcertPitch

I've just checked, and with the rank I used in my test (Jensen 3/11 Open Diapason) all pipes in the rank do indeed play at the correct pitches if I set that attribute to 8.

(Sorry I didn't mention that previously -- I'd forgotten that they might also have been tuned in that way even though the stored pitches in some of their samples were different.)
Best regards,
Martin.

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