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Mixture design

Using the CODM to create your own organ definitions, exchange CODM organ definitions, ...

Mixture design

Postby johnstump_organist » Wed Jul 01, 2009 4:39 pm

Short of putting in 6, 7, 8 etc, individual ranks at the right pitches and silencing them where they are not needed (and if one did that could you have a single stop draw all the ranks/) , Is there way to design ones own mixtures with the pitches and breaks arranged the way you want them? also so the quint and unison ranks can be routed to separate audio channels?
Thanks
John
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Re: Mixture design

Postby mdyde » Wed Jul 01, 2009 4:44 pm

Hello John,

Yes - in your CODM ODF you would just include them as separate Rank entries, and then have multiple StopRank entries to map the portions of the ranks to whatever Stop entry you wanted. The StopRank table defines a many-to-many relationship between stops and ranks, e.g. allows a stop to play multiple ranks at once, and/or multiple portions of ranks.
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Re: Mixture design

Postby johnstump_organist » Thu Jul 02, 2009 10:26 am

Thanks for the response. I look forward to the day I have the time to work on experimenting with this and coming up with just the right mixtures for my taste. I take your response to mean it would also be possible to have a decomposed Cornet of full compass ranks and a Cornet V stop control that drew all five ranks and had them play only from middle c up for French classical lit.
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Re: Mixture design

Postby mdyde » Thu Jul 02, 2009 11:01 am

Yes. Any stop can control any portions of any ranks.
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Re: Mixture design

Postby chr.schmitz » Wed Nov 22, 2017 5:44 am

I am currently building from a single rank (2’) a mixture, which consists of 5 physical ranks. The mixture is created from 9 different pitches.

Currently, I load the 9 ranks individually. If somebody wants to voice the mixture he has to know exactly, which pitches are used in which segment.

It would be advantageous if each physical rank could be voiced. But that would require that I create a rank with breaks. It this possible in a CODM? I am afraid, it is not. But I want to ask anyhow.

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Chris
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Re: Mixture design

Postby mdyde » Wed Nov 22, 2017 6:12 am

Hello Chris,

I'm not sure I fully understand your question -- could you clarify?

You could certainly create 9 virtual rank entries (which the user could voice separately if they desired), and then connect any portions of them to a mixture stop (via 9 or more StopRank entries, all with the same StopID, but with the appropriate RankIDs and compasses).
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Re: Mixture design

Postby chr.schmitz » Wed Nov 22, 2017 6:50 am

Hello Martin,

Thanks for the rapid response!

This is the composition of the mixture (I struggled a little bit to create a readable table):

........C-e0........f0-b1.......c2-b2........c3-g3
I.......2⅔..........4..............8...............8
II......1⅓..........2⅔...........4...............5⅓
III.....1.............2..............2⅔............4
IV......⅔...........1⅓...........2..............2⅔
V.......½...........1..............1⅓...........2

The mixture consists of 5 physical ranks (I-V) and 9 different pitches (8, 4, 5⅓, 2⅔, 2, 1⅓, 1, ⅔, ½).

This mixture can be easily created with just a 2 foot rank. Only the lowest 5 samples (2⅔: MIDI 36 to 40) have to be re-voiced by HW. Currently, I am loading 9 individual ranks and combine them into one stop using StopRank entries.

However, if the user wants to re-voice a sample, he has to know for example, that the 8 foot is only available from c2 to g3.

As a RankID has to be unique, I cannot create a rank combining different partial ranks (e.g. part 1: MIDI 36 to 52, part 2: 53 to 71, part 3: 72 to 83, and part 4: 84 to 91).

It would great and much easier for the user if each physical rank would show up in the voicing tool. But I assume that this can be only done in the full format ODF.

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Re: Mixture design

Postby mdyde » Wed Nov 22, 2017 8:09 am

Hello Chris,

In that case, you should be able to do what you're hoping for by just creating five virtual ranks, each with:

- Full compass.

- Rank.Samples_RankBasePitch64ftHarmNumIfAssumedTunedToConcertPitch left blank (so that Hauptwerk will read the sample pitches from the sample files), and with:

- Its own set of sample files for its full compass, and with:

- For each of its individual samples: the correct pitch of the sample stored in the sample file.
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Re: Mixture design

Postby chr.schmitz » Thu Nov 23, 2017 5:39 am

Hallo Martin,

if I understand you correctly this strategy works only if I create a new set of samples with new pitch information for each physical rank. I cannot (re-)use an existing 2 foot stop.

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Re: Mixture design

Postby mdyde » Thu Nov 23, 2017 5:47 am

Hello Chris,

As long as the existing 2' samples already have their correct pitch information stored in them (which would be the case for almost any commercial sample set's ranks) then there would be no need to change anything within the sample files themselves -- just copy and rename the files according to the note number on which you want them to sound within each of your five virtual ranks.
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Re: Mixture design

Postby chr.schmitz » Thu Nov 23, 2017 5:48 am

Hello Martin,

thanks for the rapid response! Now I understand your proposed strategy.

Chris
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Re: Mixture design

Postby mdyde » Thu Nov 23, 2017 6:17 am

Thanks, Chris.

Hope it helps.
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Re: Mixture design

Postby IainStinson » Thu Nov 23, 2017 9:16 am

I believe that mixture ranks are not normally tempered but tuned to an exact interval (5th, 17th etc) so you may need to adjust the tuning of the mixture ranks created from a tempered fifteenth rank (so that they are not tempered).

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Re: Mixture design

Postby chr.schmitz » Thu Nov 23, 2017 9:19 am

Hello Iain,

Yes, that is correct for tuning, but if you want to decrease the volume over the compass, it is not that easy, as every volume change affects multiple samples spread across the full compass.

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Re: Mixture design

Postby evertjan » Thu Nov 23, 2017 10:30 am

Martin, Chris,

In case of copy a 2' sample (with the pitch is in the sample) to another sample (and store the new pitch in it) and use the repitching of HW during play the organ, then there can be a problem of aliasing due to the repitching.
See also http://www.sonusparadisi.cz/en/blog/ali ... repitching
Also the reverb is changed. If the pitch is set higher, the reverb will be shorter and visa versa.

Better is to do repitching in an audio editor with a good and "slow repitching" mechanism and store this new file and set the correct pitch in it. The reverb problem still stays.
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