Search:
Submit Search


HW Database

Using the CODM to create your own organ definitions, exchange CODM organ definitions, ...

HW Database

Postby kiwiplant » Tue Jan 12, 2010 10:54 pm

Was wondering if there is a way to use PostgreSQL with HW instead of MySQL. PostgreSQL uses a BSD license instead of GPL license.

MySQL looks like it would cost lots of money to buy a license for and then some kind of extra editing tools too. Hard to justify this expense and complexity to change a few ODF exclusive items for an organ.

How much does MySQL use for HW cost? I don't see a price listed anywhere. Is it purchased from Sun for $600.00 or from Hauptwerk?

Thanks,
Paul
User avatar
kiwiplant
Member
 
Posts: 286
Joined: Fri Dec 05, 2008 6:40 am
Location: Ohio, USA

Re: HW Database

Postby B. Milan » Tue Jan 12, 2010 11:45 pm

Hello Paul,

In order to directly interface with Hauptwerk's built in functionality to transfer database data to a .xml ODF you would need the MySQL database since Hauptwerk is only set up for that. We do not sell licenses for this, you would need to purchase it from another source. The MySQL Enterprise license seems now to be the least expensive which was $599 last I checked.

When we purchased a license for it back in 2003 or so I believe it was around $300 USD.

MySQL was chosen by Martin originally due to the fact that it is very powerful and also multi-platform capable. While the Crumhorn Labs site used to offer the option to purchase licenses it was since dropped as so few people were ordering them and it was easier to just haver them order direct from MySQL.

You could potentially use another program if you are able to get it to transfer to the proper ODF format, however I think that would be more work than it is worth rather than purchasing a license (unless you are an advanced programmer or database developer). Other sample producers have written their own software to do the formatting or have hired outside sources to create the files for them.

If you decide to order a MySQL license and want to use with with Hauptwerk we just need to have you show proof of the license purchase and then we can enable it for you on your Hauptwerk USB key.

I hope that helps.
Regards,
Brett Milan
http://www.hauptwerk.com
http://www.milandigitalaudio.com
Send Email

Image

_________________________________
Please use email for contacting us. No private messages please.
User avatar
B. Milan
Site Admin
 
Posts: 4313
Joined: Sat Aug 30, 2003 11:15 am
Location: Tampa, FL. USA

Re: HW Database

Postby kiwiplant » Wed Jan 13, 2010 1:18 am

Thanks for the info. It looks like they are now charging $600.00 per year ! *gasp* !!!!!!!!!!

http://globalspecials.sun.com/store/mys ... Enterprise

Maybe a feature request for future HW versions is allow use of other lower cost databases or like PostgreSQL that seems to allow mixed license use. $600 per year would be much better spent on new HW samples rather than a database just to create ODF XML files.

Is there some other way to use HW as a box of ranks with something like jOrgan or like Uniflex or Artisan? For example if rank A and rank B trems are both controlled with one trem tab or string & celeste are all on one tab, but there is a desire to use them separately/independently and keep all the default voicing and enclosure settings... the only way seems to be with a new ODF? In this case it really isn't just a box independent ranks because everything is still limited by the ODF.

Thanks,
Paul
User avatar
kiwiplant
Member
 
Posts: 286
Joined: Fri Dec 05, 2008 6:40 am
Location: Ohio, USA

Re: HW Database

Postby RichardW » Wed Jan 13, 2010 5:12 pm

lower cost databases or like

Firebird? It is free.

See http://www.firebirdsql.org/.

I believe it used to be Borland's database but they decided they did not want it at some point and published the code. I think they changed their minds shortly afterwards but by then it was too late!

Regards,
Richard
User avatar
RichardW
Member
 
Posts: 736
Joined: Sun Oct 28, 2007 10:16 am
Location: UK

Re: HW Database

Postby pwhodges » Wed Jan 13, 2010 7:51 pm

What does HW require that is not supplied by the MySQL community edition? Or is it a licensing and usage issue, though I can't see anything on their website to suggest that.

Paul
User avatar
pwhodges
Member
 
Posts: 744
Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2004 12:08 pm
Location: UK, Oxford

Re: HW Database

Postby mdyde » Thu Jan 14, 2010 7:43 am

Hello Paul,

What does HW require that is not supplied by the MySQL community edition? Or is it a licensing and usage issue, though I can't see anything on their website to suggest that.


MySQL AB (MySQL's makers) are/were adamant that interfacing the MySQL Community Edition with any commercial (non-GPL) software constitutes a 'derivative work' and is thus disallowed under the GPL.

Unfortunately *very* few people were interested in using MySQL (or SQL databases in general) with Hauptwerk (even most sample set developers have and prefer their own tools, rather than SQL databases), and interfacing to any given database product is a lot of work for us, so I don't think we could justify adding a new interface for another database server apart from MySQL.

Crumhorn Labs used to re-sell the 'MySQL Classic OEM' licence at cost price, which was a perpetual and much cheaper licence than the per-year MySQL Enterprise licence that MySQL AB now seems to concentrate on selling. However, unfortunately it just wasn't viable for us to continue to re-sell those MySQL licences due to lack of demand.

If anybody is interested in getting a MySQL licence for use with Hauptwerk, I'd recommend speaking to MySQL AB to see if they can sell you a MySQL Classic licence directly. As Brett mentioned, as soon as you have any valid (non-GPL) MySQL licence, we can enable the MySQL interface in Hauptwerk for you at no cost.

If people want to use Hauptwerk with databases other than MySQL, perhaps there are some free third-party tools already that can export/import XML files to those databases? Perhaps some of the more powerful XML editors have native functions for that?

There are also plenty of third-party XML editors to be found, some of them very powerful, as alternatives to using SQL databases. E.g. a simple free one that allows easy editing of Hauptwerk's ODFs in table views is XML Marker, listed on our links page:

http://www.hauptwerk.com/support/links/
Best regards,
Martin.

[Please use email or the Contact page if you need to contact us privately, rather than private forum messages.]

Image
User avatar
mdyde
Moderator
 
Posts: 10347
Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2003 2:19 pm
Location: UK

Re: HW Database

Postby gerrit » Thu Jan 14, 2010 9:32 am

I find all this a little bit strange. As far as I understand it, one needs a license to distribute MySql width a commercial application like Hauptwerk. But why should users of this application also need a MySql license form Sun? That I don't understand. Even when I check the MySql website.

To me it is like this: MDA needs a license from Sun. Now MDA can distribute Hauptwerk with a MySql interface. MDA can sell a special license for that to their customers to get repaid for their MySql license. But the one license purchased by MDA from MySql covers the distribution and the use by all HW customers. So these customers only need a HW+MySql license from MDA, not MySql license from Sun. Or am I missing something?
Gerrit Veldman

Free sheet music available at my website.
gerrit
Member
 
Posts: 118
Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2009 4:29 am
Location: Netherlands

Re: HW Database

Postby mdyde » Thu Jan 14, 2010 9:43 am

Hello Gerrit,

I find all this a little bit strange. As far as I understand it, one needs a license to distribute MySql width a commercial application like Hauptwerk. But why should users of this application also need a MySql license form Sun? That I don't understand. Even when I check the MySql website.

To me it is like this: MDA needs a license from Sun. Now MDA can distribute Hauptwerk with a MySql interface. MDA can sell a special license for that to their customers to get repaid for their MySql license. But the one license purchased by MDA from MySql covers the distribution and the use by all HW customers. So these customers only need a HW+MySql license from MDA, not MySql license from Sun. Or am I missing something?


I can only say that we queried this point at great length with MySQL AB (I too originally had thought from their website/licence that end-users would be able to use the GPL edition provided we had a commercial licence ourselves), but MySQL AB were absolutely insistent that every Hauptwerk end-user must have a valid commercial MySQL licence before we're allowed to enable any interface ability within Hauptwerk for them.

You're very welcome to try arguing the point with MySQL AB - good luck!
Best regards,
Martin.

[Please use email or the Contact page if you need to contact us privately, rather than private forum messages.]

Image
User avatar
mdyde
Moderator
 
Posts: 10347
Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2003 2:19 pm
Location: UK

Re: HW Database

Postby HeAu » Tue Jan 19, 2010 5:20 pm

MS Access is able to import XML-files.
But if the HW-files are compressed, Access will import all record sets of all tables except "_general" into a single table called "o". This is because all entries in all object lists of a compressed HW-file are beginning with the tag "<o>".
It is possible to decompress the ODF and the organ config file. But I did not yet find a way to decompress the config.Hauptwerk.xml-file.

Best regards
HeAu
HeAu
Member
 
Posts: 87
Joined: Sat May 21, 2005 2:33 pm
Location: Austria, Salzburg

Re: HW Database

Postby mdyde » Tue Jan 19, 2010 6:50 pm

Hello HeAu,

MS Access is able to import XML-files.


Thanks for the information - that's useful to know.

It is possible to decompress the ODF and the organ config file. But I did not yet find a way to decompress the config.Hauptwerk.xml-file.


There isn't an option to extract or export Hauptwerk's main configuration file, since that's an internal part of Hauptwerk, and isn't intended to be user-editable. The functions to decompress the organ-config and combination files are meant only for sample set developers who sometimes need to extract saved voicing and combinations data to import into organ definitions they're developing.

By all means use those files to view/extract data for that purpose, but please don't try to edit any of Hauptwerk's configuration files (global config or organ-config) or combination files, since they're an internal and undocumented part of Hauptwerk, and their format changes to some extent very frequently (even for most patch releases), so it would be very easy to break a Hauptwerk installation.
Best regards,
Martin.

[Please use email or the Contact page if you need to contact us privately, rather than private forum messages.]

Image
User avatar
mdyde
Moderator
 
Posts: 10347
Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2003 2:19 pm
Location: UK

Re: HW Database

Postby HeAu » Wed Jan 20, 2010 2:47 pm

Hello Martin,
thank you again for the quick reply.
My idea is to create a vba-procedure which will read the switch(midi)inputs from the config files and create the TextInstance-entries for the ODF to make the shortcut-letters visible on the virtual console. Thus the third step to enter the properties for all switches again after setting up the general configuration tab and the organ configuration tab would not be necessary. But your hint that the configuration files are subjects to change frequently makes me thoughtful. I'll see.

Best regards
HeAu

PS: I wonder if there is any other HW-user who is using the computer-keyboard to control the organ switches. But when I look into the DIY-section with all those huge organ consoles and pretty drawstops I'm afraid I am the only one.
HeAu
Member
 
Posts: 87
Joined: Sat May 21, 2005 2:33 pm
Location: Austria, Salzburg

Re: HW Database

Postby engrssc » Fri Jan 22, 2010 1:18 am

PS: I wonder if there is any other HW-user who is using the computer-keyboard to control the organ switches. But when I look into the DIY-section with all those huge organ consoles and pretty drawstops I'm afraid I am the only one.


Not exactly HeAU. I use an X-Keys encoder http://www.xkeys.com/custom/xkmatrix.php (P I Engineering) which uses computer-keyboard "commands" that Hauptwerk can be "made to understand". For instance, I use keyboard commands for my combination action pistons. Works very well and is simple to program. :) See http://site.virtualorgan.com/community/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=694

Rgds,
Ed
User avatar
engrssc
Member
 
Posts: 5089
Joined: Mon Aug 22, 2005 11:12 pm
Location: Roscoe, IL, USA

Re: HW Database

Postby timhowarduk » Mon Jan 25, 2010 1:37 pm

There isn't an option to extract or export Hauptwerk's main configuration file, since that's an internal part of Hauptwerk, and isn't intended to be user-editable. The functions to decompress the organ-config and combination files are meant only for sample set developers who sometimes need to extract saved voicing and combinations data to import into organ definitions they're developing.


Maybe I have done things the hard way:

My three favourite sample sets don't have a great to pedal bass coupler. After some poking around I found it was fairly easy to add a perpetually on bass coupler with just one new line in a copy of the supplied organ definition file. (I'm a programmer by day). I could also add a piston to control it as long as I used a graphic which already existed. (I found I could add a new graphic but then had to load to organ via Design Options.)

Was there a better/easier way to do this? As far as I could see (and this is where I suspect I'm missing something) I couldn't generate an xml file in CODM format from an existing organ definition supplied with a sample set.

Where are these extraction features which you mention, they sound like this is what I missed?

thanks for enlightening me
Tim
timhowarduk
Member
 
Posts: 146
Joined: Mon Jan 11, 2010 6:40 pm
Location: Carlisle, UK

Re: HW Database

Postby mdyde » Mon Jan 25, 2010 4:23 pm

Hello Tim,

My three favourite sample sets don't have a great to pedal bass coupler. After some poking around I found it was fairly easy to add a perpetually on bass coupler with just one new line in a copy of the supplied organ definition file. (I'm a programmer by day). I could also add a piston to control it as long as I used a graphic which already existed. (I found I could add a new graphic but then had to load to organ via Design Options.)

Was there a better/easier way to do this? As far as I could see (and this is where I suspect I'm missing something) I couldn't generate an xml file in CODM format from an existing organ definition supplied with a sample set.


There are no native facilities to generate a CODM organ definition file (ODF) from a 'full format' ODF, since the CODM's format provides only a subset of the functionality of the full ODF format (the CODM ODF format is specifically designed to be user-editable and fairly easy and quick to learn and use, whereas the full ODF format is intentionally extremely flexible (but correspondingly complex), and aimed at sample set producers).

Hauptwerk v3 also doesn't have a native ability to allow users to add a bass coupler to sample set for sample sets that don't include one, although that functionality is planned for the future.

Hence the way you're doing it currently (i.e. editing the full-format ODF) is the only way to add a bass coupler to such sample sets at the moment, unless you want to create your own CODM ODF from scratch for those sample sets (assuming that one isn't already available/provided).

Where are these extraction features which you mention, they sound like this is what I missed?


The option to turn off ODF XML compression (which would just make it easier for you to edit an ODF) is on the 'General settings | General options | Design tools' screen tab.
Best regards,
Martin.

[Please use email or the Contact page if you need to contact us privately, rather than private forum messages.]

Image
User avatar
mdyde
Moderator
 
Posts: 10347
Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2003 2:19 pm
Location: UK

Re: HW Database

Postby ggoode_sa » Fri Jan 29, 2010 2:09 am

While I understand the MySQL commercial /non-commercial license scenario, I do think that it is a great shame that it turned out this way. I've seen a few opensource projects that were then used in commercial situations get hit with this situation too. Some of them took the step of migrating away from MySQL, and succesfully integrated SQLite in it's place (public domain software). IF there is an option further down-the-road of changing the MySQL backend, SQLite might be the best option. There are also great (and free) management tools available (see http://www.sqlite.org/cvstrac/wiki?p=ManagementTools). It might even be possible to create a script that works with the MySQL import in Hauptwerk...
GrahamG
ggoode_sa
Member
 
Posts: 355
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2007 7:43 am
Location: South Africa, Johannesburg

Next

Return to Custom Organ Design Module (CODM)

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest