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HW Database

Using the CODM to create your own organ definitions, exchange CODM organ definitions, ...

Re: HW Database

Postby timhowarduk » Fri Jan 29, 2010 5:24 am

2nd vote for SQLite! I use it as a local database for tills in my epos systems, and it's very fast and efficient and ideal for distributing with an application. It's effortlessly cross platform too.

I have also used Postgreqsl as the local database for a finance application, and it's a fine database, however this is harder for the developer on windows as they insist it can't run as an administrative user so you have to jump through hoops just to start it when your application starts, especially since UAC on Vista added to the mix.

For Hauptwerk, as there will only be one connection to the database I favour both of these over mysql given the licensing situation.
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Re: HW Database

Postby mdyde » Fri Jan 29, 2010 7:59 am

Hello Graham/Tim,

I'll log an interfacing to SQLLite as an enhancement request for (probably longer-term) future consideration.
Best regards,
Martin.

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Re: HW Database

Postby ggoode_sa » Fri Jan 29, 2010 8:02 am

Wow, thanks Martin! I know it's long-term and only a possibility, but I really think it would open advanced ODF creation to more users and sample set creators.
Thanks again,
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Re: HW Database

Postby kiwiplant » Thu Feb 18, 2010 12:38 am

I phoned MySQL sales twice to talk with two different people. When I asked them about license options and the $600.00 per year enterprise edition both people told me that I do not need a license. They said the $600.00 per year is for enterprise support (24/7 help desk, updates, and stuff like a company might want). That $600 was not for just a plain license.

After I asked them are they 100% sure and answered their questions with what I know about running it with Hauptwerk and asking them about GPL concerns, both people told me again that the enterprise license is not what I need and that the free community server edition is all I need... That the free edition is compatible with GPL use in my situation.

The free community server is suitable for my use and ok with GPL according to MySQL sales because...
1) My use of it falls under personal use. I'm not selling anything. Not producing a product for distribution. Only dealing with data.
2) I am not writing software, not incorporating as an embedded server, not a value added reseller, not an independent software vendor, and not an original equipment manufacturer.
3) I do not need enterprise support from them and no not need their advanced database monitoring programs.

I asked them if I could have this in writing to confirm it. Since it doesn't involve a MySQL sale involving money they can't create a receipt. They don't have any other mechanism of showing a "valid license" for the community edition.

So what do I do next if I would like to resolve this and try some things with ODF?

Thanks,
Paul
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Re: HW Database

Postby mdyde » Thu Feb 18, 2010 7:17 am

Hello Paul,

That's definitely very different from what they told me originally (a little before Hauptwerk v2.00's release - probably in the second half of 2005). I tried to argue the point with them at great length!

Maybe they've changed their policy recently (MySQL was bought recently by Sun, who in turn have just been bought by Oracle) - if so, that's great news for all of us. If we can, we'd love just to enable Hauptwerk's MySQL interface globally for everyone.

If you can get that in writing from them, please send a copy to us, and then we can speak to them ourselves to verify and to see if they have any further licence requirements from our side (as a software vendor making a product that can interface to it, although of course we already have commercial licences ourselves).

Thanks for your efforts!
Best regards,
Martin.

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Re: HW Database

Postby ggoode_sa » Thu Feb 18, 2010 3:38 pm

Hi Paul,
This is very interesting... it would be wonderful news if we are able to use the community edition to create ODFs with! Please let us know what the further developments are in relation to this :D

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Re: HW Database

Postby kiwiplant » Thu Feb 18, 2010 4:05 pm

Before I phone MySQL again can I make sure I understand how MySQL is needed with HW. I've never seen or read much about how the process works.

Is the work flow something like this?
1) Use HW to create an XML file which is imported into MySQL. (not sure about this step)
2) This sets up tables and relationships in the DB.
3) Navcat or similar program (or scripts ?) is used to add organ data.
4) The data in XML is exported from the database.
5) The XML file is placed in Hauptwerk/HauptwerkSampleSetsAndComponents/OrganDefinitions where HW reads the file.

I noticed there is a directory called CustomOrganDatabaseConnections. Does this come into play somehow with MySQL?

Is it ok to mention Hauptwerk if they ask me what program the database stuff is for? They asked last time, but I didn't mention the program by name. I do not feel comfortable talking about Hauptwerk company licensing details with them in an ISV direction.

Thanks,
Paul
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Re: HW Database

Postby kiwiplant » Thu Feb 18, 2010 4:40 pm

Sally at MySQL Corporate Sales emailed

"It was nice speaking with you today. Below is a link that maybe helpful to
you on our licensing policy.

http://www.mysql.com/about/legal/licensing/oem/

Thanks and have a great day."
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Re: HW Database

Postby B. Milan » Thu Feb 18, 2010 5:14 pm

Hello Paul,

We'll need to contact MySQL in order to verify if there have been any changes in their licensing since Hauptwerk 2 was originally released. Once we've spoken to them I'll report back with any relevant information.

Thank you.
Regards,
Brett Milan
http://www.hauptwerk.com
http://www.milandigitalaudio.com
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Re: HW Database

Postby ggoode_sa » Thu Feb 18, 2010 5:21 pm

I've just re-read some of their licensing info.. and as Hauptwerk is not FOSS or GPL the section that deals with this is:

Q4: Can commercial OEMs, ISVs or VARs combine and distribute commercial products with Sun’s GPL-licensed MySQL software under the FOSS License Exception? Does this include the MySQL database server?
A: Distributors of commercial products that combine GPL-licensed MySQL software with commercially licensed software (i.e., software not licensed under a FOSS license) must comply with the terms of the GPL. This includes use and distribution of the GPL-licensed MySQL database server and MySQL Client Libraries. The FOSS License Exception does not apply with respect to products licensed under any license other than the FOSS licenses listed in the section above titled “FOSS License List.”

So it seems that Hauptwerk is therefore not able to make use of the FOSS License Exception... as it's license is not listed in the FOSS License List.

Having not used the MySQL interface of Hauptwerk, I don't know if it uses the database server or the Client Libraries (I'd assume that it would use the Client Libraries). Now if the use of the Client Libraries were a separate dll that hauptwerk used to communicate to the MySQL server, it would be possible to release the sourcecode for that dll under one of the "FOSS License List" licenses (or the GPL) and get the FOSS License Exception for all users. This is a kind of 'work around' that some other products have used... they release a Lesser GPL plugin for their product.

It will be interesting to hear MySQL's take on this...

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Re: HW Database

Postby pwhodges » Fri Feb 19, 2010 5:11 am

I thought that was trumped by:
Q3: when should I purchase a commercial license for MySQL software?
A: OEMs, ISVs and VARs that want the benefits of embedding commercial binaries of MySQL software in their commercial applications...

The commercial binaries of the database are not embedded in HW, therefore no problem - or is the client library embedded? Can you access the database without the client library?

Paul
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Re: HW Database

Postby mdyde » Fri Feb 19, 2010 6:55 am

Hello Paul/Graham,

Some of the client libraries are currently embedded (to make the integration fairly seamless, and to make it easier to set up for users).

In 2005 their website seemed to imply a similar thing (that only we would need a commercial licence, not end-users), but when I spoke to them they were adamant that, as an ISV of a commercial application, all end-users would need a commercial licence if Hauptwerk had any ability at all to integrate with MySQL (even if none of MySQL's own components or client libraries were actually embedded or distributed).

Hence let's wait to see what MySQL have to say about their current licensing requirements when Brett speaks to them directly.
Best regards,
Martin.

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Re: HW Database

Postby ggoode_sa » Fri Feb 19, 2010 8:02 am

A question that might make a difference to the answer from MySQL is: Would a sample set producer who was going to release the sample set under the GPL (or Lesser GPL) be eligable for the FOSS exclusion usage of the MySQL libraries within Hauptwerk...? Just a thought..

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Re: HW Database

Postby kiwiplant » Wed Feb 24, 2010 12:21 am

Really crazy stuff.

Protocols, The GPL, Influences from MySQL
http://krow.livejournal.com/684068.html
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Re: HW Database

Postby kiwiplant » Sat Apr 03, 2010 12:42 pm

Wondering how this turned out with MySQL & HW?
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