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Strange tuning-like effects on St Anne's with all frills

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Gedakt

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Strange tuning-like effects on St Anne's with all frills

PostThu Mar 11, 2010 8:27 pm

Could someone familiar with the CODM Example Custom Organ6 (St Anne's with all frills) kindly see if he can confirm (or otherwise) the following strange effect. It is most noticeable on full organ and takes the form of a brief tremulant effect only lasting for two or three seconds after a chord is struck. For a very noticeable example of the effect, play a four-note G-major bass chord on the Swell with only the Contre Fagotto 16 stop drawn. After the initial three seconds the "beat effect" settles down. It sounds like tuning but why should it disappear after a short time? Could it be a wind disturbance?

The effect only occurs with the CODM examples and not with the "proper" native St. Anne's version.

Thanks in anticipation,

Gedakt
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bcollins

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Re: Strange tuning-like effects on St Anne's with all frills

PostThu Mar 11, 2010 10:21 pm

My guess would be that the wind reservoir and/or table size is not large enough for the respective division.
When playing full organ there is not enough wind. Try increasing the parameters, or turn the wind model off.
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Re: Strange tuning-like effects on St Anne's with all frills

PostFri Mar 12, 2010 12:35 am

Hello Gedakt,

Thanks for the information. I can confirm that it does tend to have a bit too much fluctuation in this CODM file which is due to the wind model settings, even with the default setting of 100%. These were originally created by Martin, so I am not sure if he perhaps intended it to have a bit more prominence so users are able to learn from these settings within the CODM file and to hear what different wind model parameters will do as an example. Perhaps Martin can comment on that.

You can minimize this effect by going to Organ settings | General options | Wind supply model, then lowering the percentage until you find a level that works well for you. Or you may simply disable the wind model completely in that same window if you do not want to hear these effects (or just lower to 0%). Note that you will achieve better performance (polyphony) by disabling it rather than lowering it to 0% since the wind model would still be working, although not audible.

We'll aim to fix this along with the next St. Anne's and CODM example files release which are planned along with Hauptwerk 4.
Brett Milan
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MILAN DIGITAL AUDIO
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Gedakt

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Re: Strange tuning-like effects on St Anne's with all frills

PostFri Mar 12, 2010 1:53 am

Hi Brett and Bob,

Thank you so much for your explanations. This has enabled me to change the wind parameters and thereby make this CODM version of St Anne's playable! Prior to understanding what was causing this effect I was disinclined to experiment further as there was such a huge difference between the native St. Anne's and the CODM. So I agree that the default for the wind model should indeed be changed so that others delving into the CODM examples are not confronted with this problem.

Kind regards,

Gedakt
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Re: Strange tuning-like effects on St Anne's with all frills

PostFri Mar 12, 2010 7:29 am

Hello Gedackt,

I'll log it in our database, so that we can look at tuning the St. Anne's CODM examples' wind supply models a bit better for a future version.

The CODM example organs are there for you to experiment with, so of course feel free to make a copy of them and adjust the wind models yourself to taste if you like. The WindModel_... parameters on the Division and Rank tables define the model's behaviour (see the sections on those two table in the CODM user guide for full documentation for what those parameters do).
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.
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Gedakt

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Re: Strange tuning-like effects on St Anne's with all frills

PostFri Mar 12, 2010 12:10 pm

Hi Martin,

Thank you for your answer re the St Anne's CODM wind model adjustments. For the time being I've disabled the function and this has caused the spurious, pulsating amplitude changes to disappear entirely.

Is there any aural disadvantage, or departure from realism, caused by turning-off the wind model? Was there any particular reason for setting the CODM wind model defaults differently to those of the native ODF?

Kind regards,

Gedakt
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mdyde

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Re: Strange tuning-like effects on St Anne's with all frills

PostFri Mar 12, 2010 12:56 pm

Hello Gedackt,

Is there any aural disadvantage, or departure from realism, caused by turning-off the wind model?


The wind supply model is a physical model (it uses fluid dynamics equations to model fluctuations in pressure at various points around the wind system in real-time). In general, the wind supply model does impart fluctuations to the amplitude, brightness and pitch of each pipe individually, as the wind supplies in real organs do, making the result sound more dynamic (because of constant shifts in the relative phases of the pipes and their frequency components, for example).

However, from your description it sounds as though we probably have it set a little extremely in those CODM example organ definitions.

Was there any particular reason for setting the CODM wind model defaults differently to those of the native ODF?


No. It isn't possible to make the results absolutely identical between the main St. Anne's organ and the CODM version because the CODM has simpler parameters for the wind supply model (so that it's fairly easy and quick to learn and adjust). However, the intention was to set the models in both cases so that they were similar to the real organ (and thus similar to each other).
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.
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Re: Strange tuning-like effects on St Anne's with all frills

PostFri Mar 12, 2010 4:15 pm

Thanks again, Martin. Your explanation enthuses me to try some subtle adjustments to the wind model parameters instead of just switching it off.

Kind regards,

Gedakt
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Re: Strange tuning-like effects on St Anne's with all frills

PostFri Mar 12, 2010 4:44 pm

Thanks, Gedackt.

No problem. Have fun experimenting.
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.

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