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Swell presets do notsend right commands

Building organ consoles for use with Hauptwerk, adding MIDI to existing consoles, obtaining parts, ...
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viayner

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Swell presets do notsend right commands

PostThu May 28, 2020 10:07 am

Hi,
I am new on this field please forgive me wrong names and mistakes.
I am building MIDI controllers for Hauptwerk and I face a problem which seems strange for me:
- I have built device with buttons and LEDs, button send MidiOn/Off command when pressed and LED are turned on/off on this same command received.
- I can assign (autodetect) button to any piston and pressing button on my device or pressing at the screen can turn corresponding LED on/off - as it was designed.
- lets select Left Jamb - SWELL, here lets select 3 pistons: Oboe8 Trumpet8 and Clarinet8 and assign external buttons, I assign noteOn/Off to respect pistons 20,21,22 and it works
- then I do combination: set combination of pistons let say all 3 on then SET, "1" and SET, then similar for all off assign to "2", when I press at the screen "1" all pistons are on when i press "2" all are off, but my device do not show identical state by LED!
- I check what Hauptwerk send back and it send only noteOn/Off 22 - corresponding to last (MSB) piston.
- I will expect that if all 3 pistons change state, Hauptwerk will send 3 commands noteOn/Off according to their state but it send only one.
Please help me to solve/understand the problem.
Thank you for your help.
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mdyde

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Re: Swell presets do notsend right commands

PostThu May 28, 2020 11:15 am

Hello viayner,

Do you mean that each of your MIDI buttons:

1. Sends a MIDI note-on message as you physically push the button in; and:
2. Sends a MIDI note-off message as you release your pressure on the button; and:
3. Only changes its lamp state when a MIDI message tells it to (MIDI note-on to turn the lamp on, off for off), as opposed to having any internal logic that directly changes the lamp state in response to button presses (even if no MIDI messages are received)?

Also, when auto-detecting a virtual stop, you need to make sure that you press and then release the piston before clicking the 'Done' button on the auto-detection screen. Having done so, do you select the option on the auto-detection screen to toggle the virtual switch's state?
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.
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viayner

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Re: Swell presets do notsend right commands

PostThu May 28, 2020 1:27 pm

Hi,
sorry, my explanation was maybe not so clear, lets try again:
I have device let say which have 8 buttons and 8 LED, when I press button first time it send MIDI ON if I press second time it send MIDI Off etc. By auto-detect I assign it to piston, result pressing once make the virtual piston to be on, pressing twice make it off. It works perfectly. It is like momentary button with latch.
Hauptwerk is set to match the input and output for those pistons = it receive my message and transmit back, I detect it and make the LED on or off. It also work well.
Problem is if I make a "preset" = assign combination of pistons to virtual button 1, 2 ,3, 4, or 5 (with combination of "SET"), preset seems to work, virtual buttons at the screen move/change as I design but they do not transmit correct messages according to their state.
Example: I assign to "1" (section SWELL): Oboe8, Trumpet8 and Clarinet8 to be ON, and starting point is the position that all are off, when I click on "1" I am expecting to receive 3 messages (NoteOn which was assigned to Oboe8, Trumpet8 and Clarinet8) because each piston change its state. It never happens in my case, Hauptwerk transmit only last NoteOn the most MSB - result LED do not show identical status as is on the screen. If I press/click buttons/pistons separately LEDs correspond perfectly to pistons on the screen.
I assume that combination assigned to "1" i simultaneous pressing of 3 pistons: Oboe8, Trumpet8 and Clarinet8 and transmission of 3 MIDI commands which belongs to them but this is not true. It seems like that on the screen but according to MIDI messages is equal to press only last one piston.
What I did wrong?
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mdyde

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Re: Swell presets do notsend right commands

PostThu May 28, 2020 2:40 pm

Hello viayner,

Thanks for the additional information.

viayner wrote: have device let say which have 8 buttons and 8 LED, when I press button first time it send MIDI ON if I press second time it send MIDI Off etc.


If using MIDI note-on/off messages for your buttons, instead you really need each of your MIDI buttons to send a MIDI note-on message as you push it in (every time), and a MIDI note-off message every time that you release the button. Hauptwerk will then ask you whether you want to toggle the state of any virtual stop (or other latching/'stateful' virtual switch) that you assign it to, i.e. you should let Hauptwerk perform any required toggling of virtual switches states' (rather than your button itself sending MIDI note-on and note-off messages with alternate button presses).

If you make your MIDI buttons work that way, then MIDI output should work how you want it to (i.e. Hauptwerk would send a MIDI note-on message as the corresponding virtual stop/switch turns on, and a MIDI note-off message as it turns off).
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.
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mdyde

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Re: Swell presets do notsend right commands

PostThu May 28, 2020 3:42 pm

Hello viayner,

P.S. Although it would be better to change your buttons' MIDI implementation as I described (so that it should be fully compatible with Hauptwerk's auto-detection), if that's really impossible for some reason, you might possibly be able to get it to work by auto-detecting the button to the virtual stop then manually changing its MIDI input event type manually to 'Momentary piston: alternating MIDI note-on/offs' (via the 'Organ settings | Organ Stop ... Switches ...' screen, or by right-clicking on the virtual stop and selecting 'Adjust MIDI/trigger settings manually ...').

Note also that if it helps, you could also turn on the 'Log all MIDI messages ...' option on the 'General settings | General preferences | Advanced ...' screen. That would show (via 'View | Activity log') exactly what MIDI messages Hauptwerk is receiving from your buttons, what virtual controls are being triggered as a result, and what MIDI messages it sends in response.
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.
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viayner

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Re: Swell presets do notsend right commands

PostFri May 29, 2020 3:10 am

Hi,
thank you for your help/suggestions, I will test it during the weekend and let you know if I fail :D
Have nice weekend.
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mdyde

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Re: Swell presets do notsend right commands

PostFri May 29, 2020 4:13 am

Thanks, viayner. You're very welcome. Have a good weekend too.
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.
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Re: Swell presets do notsend right commands

PostFri May 29, 2020 4:42 am

Hi,
one more question, how to attach image/file to the post?
there is [img] but where to upload file ?
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mdyde

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Re: Swell presets do notsend right commands

PostFri May 29, 2020 5:13 am

Hello viayner,

This topic covers it:

viewtopic.php?f=21&t=9797
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.
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viayner

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Re: Swell presets do notsend right commands

PostSun May 31, 2020 1:44 pm

Hi,
I was trying to follow your suggestions, still no solution obtained so far.
My hardware "button" have switch which send MidiOn/Off command and has a LED which is toggled when receive this same command what button send. LED is control only by receiving MidiOn/Off command.
if I do simply assignment to one piston like "Trumpet8" using autodetect - it works, my hardware button toggle LED and if I click on the screen it also works, I can assign like that many of my hardware buttons.
Problem comes if I do piston assignment, below 2 virtual keyboards on the main screen you have pistons (1,2,3,4,5) and I would like to assign to piston "1" presets let say "trumpet8" on and "oboe8" on, if I set both then click SET, 1, SET it assign as I want, when I click on the screen both pistons becomes on but corresponding LED on my device do not, because Hauptwerk do not transmit right corresponding commands. On the screen all works.
One more GenCancell - should it turn off all pistons ? it do not do it, what about analog channels - does it reset ?
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mdyde

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Re: Swell presets do notsend right commands

PostSun May 31, 2020 2:29 pm

Hello viayner,

Thanks for the update.

Did you change your MIDI buttons' MIDI implementations to send MIDI as I suggested originally?:

mdyde wrote:each of your MIDI buttons to send a MIDI note-on message as you push it in (every time), and a MIDI note-off message every time that you release the button.


If not, please try doing that first.

Also (once that's done), please:

- Turn on the 'Log all MIDI messages ...' option on the 'General settings | General preferences | Advanced ...' screen.

- Load St. Anne's.

- Auto-detect those two MIDI buttons to their respective virtual stops again (Trumpet 8 and Oboe 8), making sure that you press *and then release* the relevant MIDI button, and then also tick the 'toggle' option on the auto-detection screen, before clicking the 'Done' button each time.

- Without touching any other MIDI or virtual controls, now press combination piston 1 (the one that to which you previously stored the Trumpet 8 + Oboe 8) registration.

- If it still didn't turn on both of your buttons' LEDs, then go to 'Help | View activity log'. You should see that Hauptwerk MIDI sent MIDI note-on messages from each of those two virtual stops when you you pressed the piston.

- If not, (and assuming you're using Hauptwerk v5, since we no longer officially support v4, except to people who bought a licence for it less than a year ago), then use 'Help | Create a diagnostic file' and send it to us at support [at] hauptwerk.com. Francois will then be able to see what MIDI messages were auto-detected, how your MIDI settings are configured, and what MIDI messages Hauptwerk's sending from the two virtual stops.

Thanks.
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.
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viayner

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Re: Swell presets do notsend right commands

PostMon Jun 01, 2020 3:28 am

Hi,
Thanks, I will try it this afternoon,
my button is momentary and microcontroler "convert" it to two states:
after pressing hardware button then check what was the previous status and if was "on" send midiOff if was "off" send midiOn.
For tests I have only quite old free version of Hauptwerk.
Here is slightly not clear:
"- Auto-detect those two MIDI buttons to their respective virtual stops again (Trumpet 8 and Oboe 8), making sure that you press *and then release* the relevant MIDI button, and then also tick the 'toggle' option on the auto-detection screen, before clicking the 'Done' button each time." - I have set "match input and output" and Hauptwerk store only midiCh and midiNote.
Does pressin and releasing allow to store both midiOn and midiOff separately?
I am sorry for so many strange questions, it is my first contact with Hauptwerk.
Reagrds
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mdyde

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Re: Swell presets do notsend right commands

PostMon Jun 01, 2020 6:08 am

Hello viayner,

Since you're currently using the Hauptwerk v4 Free Edition, then I'll need to leave other users to help you if needed -- sorry.

However, very briefly: I'd suggest just changing your microntroller code so that it behaves as I described, i.e.:

mdyde wrote:each of your MIDI buttons to send a MIDI note-on message as you push it in (every time), and a MIDI note-off message every time that you release the button.


... then auto-detecting the buttons again as I covered in my last post (also keeping the 'match input and output' option ticked, as well as the 'toggle' option).

You should then find that it will all work properly.

viayner wrote:Here is slightly not clear:
"- Auto-detect those two MIDI buttons to their respective virtual stops again (Trumpet 8 and Oboe 8), making sure that you press *and then release* the relevant MIDI button, and then also tick the 'toggle' option on the auto-detection screen, before clicking the 'Done' button each time." - I have set "match input and output" and Hauptwerk store only midiCh and midiNote.
Does pressin and releasing allow to store both midiOn and midiOff separately?


If you programme your microcontroller as I mentioned, then yes -- pressing and releasing the button during auto-detection will allow Hauptwerk hear both the MIDI note-on and MIDI note-off messages, and if auto-detected as above it should all then work as you want. (You could try it by temporarily instead just pressing then releasing a MIDI keyboard key during auto-detection, for example, then looking in the Hauptwerk log [with MIDI logging enabled] to see the MIDI output messages that get sent.)
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.
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viayner

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Re: Swell presets do notsend right commands

PostWed Jun 03, 2020 2:11 pm

Hi,
finally I found the source and solve of the problem.
I plug one of my synthesizer and Hauptwerk send as you say, couple of commands depend what was defined.
Problem was in my microcontroller which seems to read Midi-In to slow, I was a bit surprised because there is no problem with sysex for example. Any way redefined processing of Midi-In commands solve the problem.
Thank you for your effort and help.
Have nice day.
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mdyde

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Re: Swell presets do notsend right commands

PostWed Jun 03, 2020 2:26 pm

Thanks, viayner.

You're very welcome. Excellent -- glad to hear you've managed to get it working now.
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.

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