Schober console conversion

Hello:

This is my first post to the Forum. I have been reading with much enthusiasm over the last 7 months and have been inspired by all the DYI and "project-on-a-budget" postings!

I like to think of my endeavor as "Hauptwerk by Craigslist". I've had great luck. I obtained an AOB Associated Organ Builders) pedalboard and bench for free (that story for another post). The coveted Ikea Galant table in Birch (this wood trim is no longer offered by Ikea) in like new condition for $55. Three weeks ago I acquired non-working Schober Recital model with bench, build manuals, and other accessories also for free. Delivery was free as I have a pair of Roll-R-Kari dollies and friend with a flat bed trailer that I borrowed!

For the Schober, I removed all the outdated circuitry, stop rail backboard, and keyboard stack leaving only the basic keydesk with expressions, studs, and pistons. I didn't discard anything except the pedalboard contact assembly which had several broken contacts and hanging wires. Maybe I should have kept it and tried to repair it?

On the other hand, the AOB pedalboard uses reed switches connected to mutliplexer board so I thought I'd upgrade the Schober pedalboard to the same. Unfortunately the AOB pedalboard is 1.75 inches too wide to slide into place of the Schober pedalboard. So it looks like it will be a matched set of Ikea Galant with AOB parts and Schober conversion.

I ordered a base Artisan system (uMicro Midi and HV64 input board) as this can handle the 32 note pedalboard, 22 pistons, 6 toe studs, and 2 expression pedals. I'll be placing an order with MidiBotique for their 32 note reed switch package for the Schober pedals.

In the meantime, I went ahead and wired up the Artisan boards to the AOB pedalboard. Since the reed switch wires all terminate at a proprietary multiplexer board, swapping it out with the Artisan input board was a breeze. For now I'm using a Nord Electro and Behringer UMX for keyboards (yea I know they are both red and look cool) as I've had the Nord for about 10 years now. My long term goal (at least at this point) is to skin 3 Behringer UMXs and build a keystack for the Schober following the lead of forum member Al Morse:
http://morse.home.comcast.net/~morse/content_organ.html

So here is my question; This is a late model Schober that has upgraded wooden swell shoes and uses a light bulb and photocell with pot to measure expression. Is it possible to convert this design to MIDI for use with the Artisan board? I'm thinking I need a separate power supply to power the small light? Would there be a way to test that the photocell and pot are still operational? My 2nd option would be a small investment in two linear 10K pots and attached them to the back of the swell shoes like the pictures posted here:
http://forum.hauptwerk.com/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=13914&p=103059&hilit=swell+pedal#p103059
I welcome any suggestions.

Can't tell you how much fun I'm having! The Schober keyboards are the plastic, clacky, Pratt & Reed brand. I don't care for them so I plan to upcycle by mounting the plastic caps of 2 octaves or so onto a stained wooden board as an art project with my kids. I may go further and glue in some small wooded blocks hidden under each key taper, screw in some cup hooks, to hang keys on. What better place to hang keys than on a "key board".

Danny B.

Welcome to the conversion "converters". You may find many thoughts arrive during the course of the conversion process. You probably saw this expr ped link as well:

http://forum.hauptwerk.com/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=10400&p=76477&hilit=Ed%27s+pedal#p76477

Rgds,
Ed

Hi Danny B.,

Things to consider with the Schober.

1.) The Schober pedal board is designed so that the keyswitch springs become part of the pedalboard 'suspension system' . If the switch return mechanism is not present the pedals will sag and not return to the top of travel as they should. So I suggest using the pedal board mechanical springs even if you do not use the contact springs. The contact springs can be rejuvenated by using De-oxit Gold on them and as you need only one row instead of six there are plenty of parts available to rebuild one row. YMMV

2.) The Pratt & Reed keys are OK but the Nylon like plastic levers and parts of the key contacts get brittle and break and it is a lot of work to repair them until the next piece breaks. My recommendation is to replace them completely. I have used some M-Audio and Behringers in the ones I have done.

3.) The photo-diode/lamp expression pedals are a high impedance logarithmic output pedals which do not mate well with inputs designed for 10K Ohm linear potentiometers. Put the pots on instead. Been there done that, didn't like the result.

There is a source of Schober parts on the Schober Orphans list. David Castille has collected a lot of Schober parts and shares them freely but you pay the shipping.

Thanks for the reply Thomas.

I threw away the pedalboard contact system which was the only thing discarded. I only remember the super spongy, rubber contact arms and associated wires. However the springs in the back seem heavy duty enough and I've adjusted them using the 1/2 full wine bottle method. The springs all needed tightening and the 'recoil' is at the same force as my AOB pedalboard. I have them side by side for comparison. BTW, I think the AOB bench and pedalboard were built by Klann. Both are constructed like a tank and weigh about as much!

Yes, I agree with you about the keyboards. If you read my last paragraph you'll see the key caps are destined for my son's art project.

Attached new linear pots is what I will do. I figured there would too much time involved to try and engineer the photo cell system, just wanted to make sure. Plus rigging up the wood dowels, brass rods, hinges, and pots would cost < $20!

Great to see another old Schober converted to a new life. I redid a Schober that my Dad and I built back in the mid 70s. I did keep the old keyboards and refurbished and rewired them. I replaced the pedal contacts with a pedal kit from Petersen and beefed up the rear springs. Made a few mistakes but sure learned a lot.

Aside from the internal parts problems, the Schober consoles are quite good in looks and durability esp considering all the console parts arrived in cardboard boxes and had to be put together. Even a method to stain the raw wood (kit) pieces was included..

Rgds,
Ed

I now this is an old post but about 10 years ago I got the Schrober pedalboard off of ebay and when I got there he also had the 2 sides, the top with music stand, and the board where the volume pedals go. There were no keyboards or any electronics. I put magnetic switches on the pedals and midi'ed them that way. I built a shelf for the keyboards to sit on. I made an aluminum frame to hold the swell.

I also think the case is nice and is perfect for doing what I did. BTW the pedalboard went for $107 and it is AGO specs. I didn't do anything to them as far as springs. Of course we had to drive from Delaware to Boston. I didn't even know he had the carcass until I got there. I thought there's no way I'm going home without the carcass and after we negotiated for $60 he said there was no way they were staying.

Thanks for adding your comments macpianoman. If anyone is interested here is an update:

I kind of followed Thomas's advise and chunked the old key beds but kept the plastic sharps and naturals and threw them in a box as they might make a nice project for my kids some day. I installed a reed switch assembly from MidiBotique on the pedalboard itself as you mentioned. The key dip travel on the pedalboard seemed too shallow, barley a 1/4". I simply removed the bottom bumper felt and split it to be half the thickness. Now the pedal travel is more correct.

I am using an Artisan input board plus the Micro MIDI now mounted behind the fall board. With 64 inputs, I had capacity to add the pistons and toe studs so now HW recognizes them too. The 2 swell pedals were too close together so with help from a friend and reciprocating saw, we expanded the opening to give some girth between the pedals and sides. I then mounted slider pots in the same fashion shown in early posts for Midifiying Swell and Crescendo pedals.

I learned A LOT being able to work on this console shell with peace of mind knowing that was just a kit instrument and hardly worth anything. I hope that doesn't come across sounding too crass. At times I would mount 2 MIDI keyboard controllers on the half keydesk to give it a try. Even with proper spacing, the swell pedals still don't feel like they are in the correct position. I think I'm back to the kick board cut out again. I should have trimmed a 1/4" off the top part of the swell opening.

I am now abandoning this organ and moving on to MIDIfy a recently acquired 1967 Rogers Triology in PERFECT shape. If anyone is interested in a Schober Console Shell (Recital model) with an AGO pedalboard with reed switch assembly installed (just add an encoder), feel free to PM me

Danny B.

Danny, thanks for your comments. My first requirement was not to have something that would be difficult to move as I have it in my basement. I can put it together or take it apart in about 15 minutes flat. On the pedalboard depth of travel I've not noticed any issue with the depth of travel as I play an Allen organ at church. I'm going to measure the depth tonight as you have me curious.

For compactness and weight etc. this little Schrober fits the bill. BTW it came with no organ bench but we found a used one in a Newark NJ organ/piano store which looks just like my Allen at my church. I'm a woodworker with at whole woodshop but I would not even want to attempt making a bench with all it's intricacies. Shoot I don't even want to attempt the Schober carcass.

Gary

Edit. I just went down and measured the depth of travel on the Schrober pedalboard and it is a smidge over 1/4 inch. AGO specs say 1/2 inch at end of sharp. I'm going to have the measure the Allen at church to see how it fares. Looks like a bit of work to get part of the felt off. At least I have plenty of spring to the pedals. They snap back quickly. I actually have a nice glossy brochure of the AGO specs that I purchased from them before everything was online.

Speaking of organ benches (which isn't exactly the subject of this post), I've been looking into a mechanism to raise and lower the seat (top) of a bench as I am tall and several organist friends a somewhat shorter. I have an old, used bench which isn't in very good condition but it does have this "seat elevator" mechanism with a crank on one side. There are a few issues to deal with as my regular dog leg theatre organ bench has quite different dimensions from the classical style (above) bench with the seat raise//lower setup. One or the other will require quite a bit of modification and I don't want to change the basic design of the T/O bench. Not sure I want to build from scratch a new mechanism but am weighing if I can use parts of the bench that has the mechanism.

Haven't to date read of anyone else doing this but I'm sure it can be done. One friend mentioned while I'm at it, why don't I install an electric gearmotor with up and down push buttons? Yeah, right. I'm not that old (and lazy) to do that just yet.

BTW, I built a Schober Recital many years ago, replaced the keyboards, etc, and MIDI-fyed it for another friend. She wanted it in a smaller room (looked like it could have been a bedroom size wise).This room had something like a 28" doorway which didn't allow for easy access by a Recital console in a normal, upright position. The solution was to lay the console on it's side on a 4 wheel, low to ground dollie. In this position,it was quite easy to "wiggle" it thru the doorway. We did take the room's door off temporarily, but other than that, no structural changes needed.

Rgds,
Ed

On the height I just use wood blocks to raise mine up to the height of the organ at church. I'm 5"11 so the 21.5 inches from the pedalboard works well.

Hi Danny,
Since you mentioned the Rodgers Trio..... you might take a look at www.hfevans.com , That covers my conversion of a 321 several years ago.....


To engress..... Rodgers made a dogleg adjustable bench (at least for my 3400.. If you want a picture send me a PM...
Regards
Frank Evans

Hi Danny,
Since you mentioned the Rodgers Trio..... you might take a look at http://www.hfevans.com , That covers my conversion of a 321 several years ago.....

Thanks for the post Frank. Nice HW conversion! Mine won't be as elaborate. First off my Rodgers is a "Triology" not a "Trio" which is a classical model also known as a 32B. Actually the Triology differs slightly from a 32B in that it was for a residential install with a smaller console, single expression, and shorter less radiant pedal board almost to AGO specs. I won't be adding SAMS but will incorporate my Launchpad and a future touchscreen on the sides. I will keep the original, single straight rail stop tabs and wire those to a MIDI encoder so when someone ventures to play it, moving the physical tabs will get the correct voice.

I plan on transplanting the toe studs from the Schober console to the Rodgers. The housing for thumb pistons on the Schober are glued into the rail! Since momentary push buttons are such a bargain these days, that's probably the way to go if I'm unsuccessful in removing the Schober pistons.

Like you, I will be expanding the swell shoe opening to accommodate 2 additional pedals. After reading about your website on the Rodgers conversion I have a few questions if you don't mind:
How did you expand the swell shoe opening and retain the rounded corners?
Is the metal molding for this opening a special order item?
I found the specs and brochures for your 321 as saw that it didn't have 2nd touch. Did you add 2nd touch on the Accomp manual?

Thanks.

Danny B.

On the 321 I used push buttons... eBay @ 39.90/100 # 171555337620.... You can't engrave on them and I found about 6 out of the 100 that were bad.... Thought it was a good deal at 0.40 ea including shipping...
On the swell shoe opening, I removed the shoes and frame and using a cardboard template marked the new opening, then cut it with a saber saw. After I widened the opening I attempted to bend a new frame.... not as easy as it looks because of the small corner radius. I found the aluminum molding on eBay... It was used to edge countertops back in the 50s & 60S when the kitchen counters still had linoleum on them.... Anyway since the material I found was the same as Rodgers used, I carefully cut the top of the frame making 2 pieces and cut a piece of the new the proper width and inserted it in the middle... With care it can't be seen without looking close. If you do that and need a piece of the molding, let me know, I think I still have about 12 feet .
Never did add second touch to that organ... It was a "trial" run and after finishing it, I gutted my 340 and started to convert it. When I got to the point on that one where I started needing the SAMs, tabs and Artisan boards, I gutted the 321 and sold the console. Now I have the 340 with the original second touch on the acc. The latest project is adding second touch to a Rodgers pedalboard... Then maybe the great...

Just a note on Schober pedalboards----

I converted a Recital to MIDI and tried to use the original pedal keyswitches but gave up. I converted to reed switches using a kit from Peterson. Easy to install and solved all keying problems.

However, the pressure needed to depress a pedal seemed very light so a few weeks ago I added some pedal springs for the front of the pedals (before there were only the flat springs in back) and it made a world of difference! They were easier to install than I thought they would be, well worth the time.