sporadic midi from swell shoe

Hello everyone!

I've done a strange thing with my organ setup, and I believe it has been causing a lot of midi issues... I bought Classic Midi Works (the older ones with the bracket) swell shoes and plugged them into a midi-hardware encoder. They send sporadic midi signals. If I leave the organ for a few minutes with the shoes halfway open, occasionally I'll come back to the organ and NOTHING works except the Launchpad. The keys/pistons/pedalboard are no longer sending signals to Hauptwerk (but the encoders are picking up the signal). I then have to restart the computer.

Side note: In a previous post I addressed this same problem and thought the problem was the ceiling fan, which when turned on or off would "flash" the audio interface and cause it to stop sending signals. Although that was a problem, I have since moved, and still occasionally this happens without any lights/fans being turned off in the house.


Could it be (hopefully) that the Classic swell shoes and the midi-hardware for some reason don't get along? Maybe when left alone, they "flash" the overly sensitive midi system causing everything to freeze? I've been searching for months to find out why this happens.

Thanks!

EDIT: It was the lights again! Well, at least I know not turn the bathroom lights off/on again while the organ is on...

(deleted double post)

I wonder if a UPS system with good filtering would be a sound investment for your console setup...

"I have been waiting for other technical expertise",
but none yet, so here is my recommendation .

Replace the wires that go from your pedals to your encoder
with shielded cable, and attach the shield to the swell pedal frame,
then attach the other end of the shield to the encoders earth (Ground) terminal.

I believe that the wires that you are now using,
are acting as a "Receiving Antenna"
and picking up stray electrical noise in the area !

If this does not fix the problem, call, Classic Midi Works,
from past experience that company is very helpful !

If not, PM me and I will try to help you
Mel !

A UPS system would probably help. I think that the current is so sensitive that the midi can be disrupted from the apt. below me! But in the meantime... something curious happens with only the lowest keyboard when this occurs. If I reset midi within HW or, even if I close out and restart HW after a "midi flash" event, the lowest keyboard begins transmitting a continuous signal when depressed. I use midi-hardware encoders, and the upper to keyboards remain in the proper configuration where the midi signal is sent only when depressed/released. So, until I restart, the lowest manual causes the encoders to blink continuously as long as the key is pressed down.

I have tried re-detecting the manual, but because the signal is continuos instead of midi note on/off, it won't detect. It just ciphers and jams up.

Also, I checked the swell shoe wiring and it was indeed shielded... So I guess thats not it. Thanks for the suggestions. I noticed that I don't have to restart that computer though. If I close out of HW unplug the midi cable from the midisport 2x2, and plug it back in, that resets it and begins to send correct signals.

If your Swell shoes utilize, "Pot's",
You may have intermittentcy, that is very common with most all of them .

I have had the same sort of problem with my HW Organ,and
I occasionally have to apply a shot of pot lube, (mine is Deoxit-D5),
into my swell pedal slide-pots,
in order to keep my encoders from outputting spurious Midi !

I have been tempted, to replace all my pots
with some sort of home brew optical devices,
since I have done that with all of my keys,
but haven't quite figured that one out yet!
Mel

I would Contact, "Midi-Hardware" as soon as possible,
as this appears to be a severe encoder issue.
Best wishes to you !

I have two thoughts to add to the good advice from Mel. It's possible that the power to the midi-hardware encoder or to any other encoder or MIDI merger is unstable. Also, it would be good to check that every device has the same ground reference. Grounds for all MIDI devices should connect back to one common point in the console. Whether these grounds ultimately connect to electrical safety ground may vary with the installation, but remember that the MIDI cable will not provide a ground connection by design. In any case you wouldn't want the ground point floating so that it becomes an antenna, much in the same way as Mel mentioned previously. I connect the signal grounds (circuit board grounds) to safely ground even though I do get a ground connection via my USB cable (I don't use normal MIDI cables).

I've come across some "commercial" MIDI cables that have only 3 conductors and none were a shield. After some "issues", I now make up my own (MIDI cables). A further advantage is that I can make them to the exact length needed and not have deal with extra wire loops that aren't very pretty to say the least. I use 5 conductor (shielded) cable because I use the normally unused 2 leads as phantom power for the MIDI encoders/decoders. And with shielded 5 pin DIN connectors, I attach the cable shield to the shell (or barrel0 of the connector and thus the cable shield is not a MIDI signal conductor.

Probably overkill, but zero problems has a nice sound to it.

Rgds,
ED