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Tracker Touch - when cost is of little concern

Building organ consoles for use with Hauptwerk, adding MIDI to existing consoles, obtaining parts, ...
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johnh

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Tracker Touch - when cost is of little concern

PostMon Feb 22, 2016 8:37 pm

This video is a few years old and is quite brief but it describes the use of a 'faux' windchest to create authentic tracker touch...

http://www.novelorg.com/site/video/TrackerTouch.flv

The organ in question is tracker action but two divisions use a servo system and hence the need to create 'tracker touch' on one manual and pedalboard.
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organtechnology

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Re: Tracker Touch - when cost is of little concern

PostMon Feb 22, 2016 11:29 pm

In talking with a maker of tracker organs he remarked that tracker touch was a thing he worked hard to eliminate from his pipe organ. It was a bad thing in his mind and the less tracker touch the better. So why are pipe organ people so enamored with tracker touch? And why do Hauptwerk people care?

Real question,

Thomas
Complete Hauptwerk™ systems using real wood consoles, PC Sound Engines, Dante Audio for Home or Church. info (at) organtechnology.com http://www.organtechnology.com
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engrssc

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Re: Tracker Touch - when cost is of little concern

PostTue Feb 23, 2016 1:37 am

organtechnology wrote:So why are pipe organ people so enamored with tracker touch? And why do Hauptwerk people care?


It's just a thingy. :roll: When there's nothing of substance to talk about, the subject usually goes to the weather.

Rgds,
Ed
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Re: Tracker Touch - when cost is of little concern

PostTue Feb 23, 2016 7:29 am

So how do I access the .flv video listed above? My computer doesn't know what to open it with, and neither do I :oops:
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Re: Tracker Touch - when cost is of little concern

PostTue Feb 23, 2016 8:07 am

I got it to play on my iPad by downloading an app called PlayerXtreme. When the site loads you can hit "open with" and choose that app.
On a computer you'd need to get an the fly player which is free.
Rob Enns
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Eric Sagmuller

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Re: Tracker Touch - when cost is of little concern

PostTue Feb 23, 2016 9:28 am

Yeah I figured I didn't have the right player. I probably won't bother with it then.

Thanks,
Eric
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Re: Tracker Touch - when cost is of little concern

PostTue Feb 23, 2016 10:22 am

The've added two little windchests in the console with pallets which physically attach to each key exactly as the "real" tracker keys would but these windchest pallets don't connect to any pipes. They just produce the necessary resistance to simulate a tracker touch.
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Eric Sagmuller

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Re: Tracker Touch - when cost is of little concern

PostTue Feb 23, 2016 11:07 am

Ok, interesting. I assume they don't use real wind, it mentions a servo system of some sorts.

Eric
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telemanr

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Re: Tracker Touch - when cost is of little concern

PostTue Feb 23, 2016 1:52 pm

Yes it has real wind so that the pallets have resistance. They just don't connect to any pipes. The servo mechanism does the connection to the pipes but has no feel so each key is connected to two sites instead of just the second one that produces sound.
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Eric Sagmuller

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Re: Tracker Touch - when cost is of little concern

PostTue Feb 23, 2016 3:23 pm

Interesting, thanks for the explanation.
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Re: Tracker Touch - when cost is of little concern

PostTue Feb 23, 2016 4:52 pm

organtechnology wrote:In talking with a maker of tracker organs he remarked that tracker touch was a thing he worked hard to eliminate from his pipe organ. It was a bad thing in his mind and the less tracker touch the better. So why are pipe organ people so enamored with tracker touch? And why do Hauptwerk people care?

Real question,

Thomas


I know that, for myself, the faux tracker touch on the CMK keyboards cleans up my playing considerably. A neurological injury left me with uneven strength in my fingers, and that slight 'snap' really helps keep my timing even on fast passages!

...but that's just me. :wink:

~Scott
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Re: Tracker Touch - when cost is of little concern

PostThu Feb 25, 2016 3:02 pm

telemanr wrote:Yes it has real wind so that the pallets have resistance. They just don't connect to any pipes. The servo mechanism does the connection to the pipes but has no feel so each key is connected to two sites instead of just the second one that produces sound.

One wonders if it's difficult to keep regulated so that the servo allows wind into the pipes at the exact same spot in the key travel that the 'just-for-touch' pallet opens and thus the pluck is felt.
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Re: Tracker Touch - when cost is of little concern

PostThu Feb 25, 2016 3:06 pm

organtechnology wrote:In talking with a maker of tracker organs he remarked that tracker touch was a thing he worked hard to eliminate from his pipe organ. It was a bad thing in his mind and the less tracker touch the better. So why are pipe organ people so enamored with tracker touch? And why do Hauptwerk people care?

Real question,

Thomas

I believe it's supposed to aid in precision by letting you know in a tactile way at exactly what point in the key travel the pallet will open and thus the pipe(s) will start sounding. Helps when playing multiple notes that should sound together sort of thing as opposed to just pressing the notes and having them start sounding at some arbitrary point in the key travel, perhaps not all all the same time.
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johnstump_organist

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Re: Tracker Touch - when cost is of little concern

PostThu Feb 25, 2016 9:29 pm

organtechnology wrote:In talking with a maker of tracker organs he remarked that tracker touch was a thing he worked hard to eliminate from his pipe organ. It was a bad thing in his mind and the less tracker touch the better. So why are pipe organ people so enamored with tracker touch? And why do Hauptwerk people care?

Real question,

Thomas

A good tracker touch can provide incredible feedback to the player allowing better control over the opening and closing of the pallet and thus more control over initial and closing transients. It can actually be quite effective in pedal divisions with the larger pipes, allowing one to truly have a note attacked harder of softer. The pluck gives one that feedback. The most effective is of course a suspended tracker touch. A long trakcer run with many joints of various kinds can become too heavy and defeat the purpose. Of course with any electric system that artificially simulates the pluck, the firing of the contact must be closely coordinated with the moment of pluck in order to provide any effective bio-feed back. I've played on many trackers where one could truly achieve more subtle slurrings and attacks and releases as well as on some where it was about the same as playing on a pitman chest with 12 ranks on one primary (i.e. slow and sluggish and totally unresponsive). Your builder friend was probably talking about the worst aspects of tracker touch, otherwise he would have built electric action pipe organs.
John
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Re: Tracker Touch - when cost is of little concern

PostThu Mar 24, 2016 2:40 pm

Control over the opening and closing of the pallet is minimal. It *can* be noticeable but often isn't. When there is wind pressure involved, as soon as the seal is broken, the pressure neutralizes (and quickly). Now, on a real pipe organ you can get different speech characteristics assuming you are highly highly trained and it is a good instrument with good touch. You can "choke" a pipe's speech for instance. But the truth is, in most normal playing, the effect is minimal. You have to often be very deliberate and extreme to articulate such effects. The closing of the pallet is perhaps more easily controlled due to the mechanics of it (providing resistance in stead of breaking a seal). But in a hauptwerk setup, these things are almost completely irrelevant. Then it falls down to simple preference.

On the one hand, I often frustratedly think that the tracker/pneumatic touch debate is completely fruitless. I've played many instruments, many that are not trackers that feel very nice because they have high quality keyboards with well-regulated contacts. But then I stop myself and think of other types of instruments as well. Trackers have a true feel. They are the sum of their parts and are much more than a simple fulcrum like electric organs are. As organists we are sensitive to that. Some like it, some don't. Much the same way, pianos have a feel. There is the feel of upright vs grand (and expensive and cheap for that matter...) And the good Lord knows that digital pianos are all over the place. We certainly wouldn't begrudge a pianist who was buying a digital piano for trying to find a keyboard with the most authentic grand piano-like action they could find, and much the same way, organ transmission was the same for hundreds of years before electricity came along... that feeling is a legitimate choice and something worth emulating for many. OTOH, there are musicians who like "synth-action" keyboards. I don't get it personally, but they exist.

There are often times people become sensitive to something and don't even know how to properly articulate that fact. THEY KNOW it when they FEEL it. Just can't put a finger on it......so to speak :roll: I suspect it is the same for people who have an affinity for tracker touch keyboards.
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