Estey reed organ.

Hi All
I managed to buy a 2-manual,full pedal reed organ from someone just across the line, in Washington state a week ago.
Its 106 years old but in good shape and really build sturdy.
You can even couple the top keyboard to the bottem one and the keyboards to the pedal.
I think its possible to midify the pedalboard for Hauptwerk,but does anyone know if it would be possible to midify the keyboards?
Anyone have any experience?
Thank you

I would be doubtful. Whilst you could fit contacts to the keys, the action, which usually depends on the pallet springs on the pallets below the stickers from the keys, and in part on the vacuum created to play the reeds, would probably be too heavy and slow. I think the results might be disappointing and not worth the investment of time and cost of parts. Sorry.

The pedal board might be more suitable provided you find a good way to attach contacts or use some form of magnetically operated reed switch.

If the reed organ works well then why not leave it alone and find a disused electronic organ to make into a midi console?

Iain

Hi Ian
Thanks a million.
Already have a console.
Just was thinking about if it could be done.
Would be interesting to be able to play the reed organ and a Hauptwerk organ at the same time.
Also the reed organ keys have the special mechanical pipe organ feel which is kind of neat.
Pete

There is a Company that makes a midi receptor that can be placed under a piano keyboard. May be too long to fit under the Estey keys. May be no room.

Don't remember the company name but I guess you can Google it

[mdyde]

[Topic moved here.]

It can be done.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KgKpONN2Ktc

However, I wouldn't attempt anything like this myself, nor would I recommend it.

Apart from anything else, the console of a two-manual Estey is far from comfortable for extended playing. The reed mechanism puts a large panel under the lowest keyboard, compromising knee space. The 30-note pedalboard is flat and parallel. The interior of a 2MP reed organ is not exactly spacious, so it would indeed be a challenge to squeeze in any more hardware.

The key touch of a reed organ is a long way removed from the feel of a mechanical action pipe organ. There is minimal top resistance because the air suction works in the same direction as pallet movement, not against it, which makes reed organ key action feel spongy and vague under the fingers. Console dimensions in general are far from what could be regarded as "standard".

.... and I could say much more!

In a former life I restored reed organs - active in this field from the mid 1970's until 2002. Most of the instruments I worked on were of the single manual foot-blown variety, but I also carried out complete restorations of three 2-manual and pedal Estey instruments for clients plus a fine 2MP by Dominion of Canada of my own.

Reed organs are worthy instruments of their time and I believe should stay that way. If a derelict instrument is beyond repair its best use is as a supply of spare parts for a restoration enthusiast to use on other jobs.

If you have time to spare to MIDIfy a console, I feel you'd get a better return on your efforts by repurposing an old electronic organ with a decent standard console.

Andrew

It can be done.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KgKpONN2Ktc

An appropriate piece of music, kinda neat. Sounds a little like a barrel or mechanical organ.

Rgds,
eD

Hello,

I did it with a Rushworth&Dreaper "Apollo" Reed Organ (built in 1927):

see here: viewtopic.php?p=96094#p96094

There is only a little neodym magnet fixed at each key. So there's no additional weight or resistance in the mechanical action.
And the reed organ itself remained fully playable, too .

Regards,
Thomas

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the R & D "Apollo" had a much more "standard" console. In particular, the pedalboard was concave/radiating and there was no bulky windchest mechanism housed directly under the keyboard front so knee room not have been compromised. If I'm right, this would have been a significantly more viable conversion concept than a century-old Estey.

Andrew

A few years back when I was in a Hauptwerk conversion frenzy, I purchased a beautiful two manual pipe organ console . It had really nice real ivory keyboards and the organ was originally tracker-action. One of the first things I wanted to do was make the keyboards MIDI which requires contacts that will end up going to a digital scanning board. I was unaware of it at the time I purchased the console but had already been modified which made my job much easier. It had a strip mounted under each keyboard which had a very sure contact wiping motion. With Hauptwerk you have to be VERY careful about contact wiping surfaces because the slightest surface irregularity with result in an annoying intermittent contact. I had this exact experience with another organ I was converting which happened to be an old Rodgers 1970. Contact voltage and current requirements were much higher and arcing of key contacts caused a small amount of pitting. This may not have been a problem with the original organ but it was a horrible problem with Hauptwerk. It required that every keyboard note contact be cleaned with fine grit cloth like an emery cloth until the contact surfaces were as smooth as glass. Very time consuming and laborious work.
Peterson supplies the organ industry with components that make it easy to do what you want to do with that Estey. I'm not sure how the contact wiping works ( it might even be those micro switches that are permanently sealed). I have added their web site page specific to what I think you will need to do.
Antoni


http://www.petersonemp.com/products/pdf/MODULARKEY.PDF

Antoni,
I had the same problem,
"But with a well used" Wurlitzer Pipe Console,
with its original cleaned, but troublesome sterling wire wiping contacts, and silver tipped contact bars.

I had to spray my contacts often with "Deoxit D5", contact improver .

Three years ago I decided to eliminate all the open contacts with Optical Switches,
only one of these died in the first few weeks,
Now, I could not be happier with the results ! (I have 310 of these in use, ),
"If you wish, Please PM me, should you want further info or Photo's"

Some major modern organ builders have used Opto's,
and others have utilized small magnetic glass reed switches.

There are pre-wired assembly's available that make using magnetic reed's, much simpler,
you can find them at , [url]MidiBoutique.com[/url] !
Mel

A few years back when I was in a Hauptwerk conversion frenzy, I purchased a beautiful two manual pipe organ console . It had really nice real ivory keyboards and the organ was originally tracker-action. One of the first things I wanted to do was make the keyboards MIDI which requires contacts that will end up going to a digital scanning board. I was unaware of it at the time I purchased the console but had already been modified which made my job much easier. It had a strip mounted under each keyboard which had a very sure contact wiping motion. With Hauptwerk you have to be VERY careful about contact wiping surfaces because the slightest surface irregularity with result in an annoying intermittent contact. I had this exact experience with another organ I was converting which happened to be an old Rodgers 1970. Contact voltage and current requirements were much higher and arcing of key contacts caused a small amount of pitting. This may not have been a problem with the original organ but it was a horrible problem with Hauptwerk. It required that every keyboard note contact be cleaned with fine grit cloth like an emery cloth until the contact surfaces were as smooth as glass. Very time consuming and laborious work.
Peterson supplies the organ industry with components that make it easy to do what you want to do with that Estey. I'm not sure how the contact wiping works ( it might even be those micro switches that are permanently sealed). I have added their web site page specific to what I think you will need to do.
Antoni


http://www.petersonemp.com/products/pdf/MODULARKEY.PDF

I would like to advise that I have devised a key contact system that uses Hall Effect sensors.
This system eliminates the hysteresis effect common with the use of magnetic reed switches and very basic Hall Effect sensing. This system gives 100% reliable keying, with no ‘contact bounce’.

Main features:
1. Easy to fit.
2. Very precise measurement of key position.
3. Can send key-on, key-off and velocity data.
4. Multiple ‘on’ point sensing, providing ‘second touch’ output.
5. Direct MIDI output on Channels 1-16. 
6. Very little wiring. Only 15 wires to encoder plus one 5V DC power cable to first PCB.


Description.
System works utilising Hall Effect sensors
One PCB per octave, top octave has 13 sensors.
Other numbers of keys are possible.
PCB is 30mm wide, which make it easy to fit on any kind of keyboard.
System can ‘sense’ movement in either direction, decreasing or increasing distance of key surface to sensors. Circuit board can be mounted in almost any place on keyboard
Small neodymium magnets 3mm diameter and 1.5mm high are mounted on keys using epoxy glue, super glue or similar. Movement of keys is converted to digital format, with resolution of approx. 0.04mm.
No ‘drilling’ of holes is required for magnet fixing. It is enough to maintain similar distance between sensors and magnets. 
Each printed board (octave) is connected to the encoder with one twisted pair cable. Digital data is converted to MIDI messages. Adjustment of firing point, measurement velocity is possible
Because adjustment of contact is only done digitally it is very easy for complete keyboard or for each key to be ‘adjusted’.
As system can have multiple ‘On’ points and it can detect ‘velocity’ and send ‘second touch’ data.
Tests have shown that in the case of keys with sheet metal frame (covered with plastic, such as found on many commercial keyboards) the magnets will hold their position with their own magnetism.

This new system is about to be fitted on two types of manuals, wood core and metal frame.
I will shortly post further details and photos of a complete keyboards fitted with this system.
tomasznowak690@gmail.com
info@pipeorganlogic.com

Want to thank you all for responses.
This new midifying system might be real interesting.
Please keep us updated with developments.
Thank you all.

I would like to advise that I have devised a key contact system that uses Hall Effect sensors.
This system eliminates the hysteresis effect common with the use of magnetic reed switches and very basic Hall Effect sensing. This system gives 100% reliable keying, with no ‘contact bounce’.

For another interesting use of Hall Effect Sensors, see:
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=15499

This system allows the partial opening of an Organ Pipe to exactly follow the partial pressing of a Key... enabling true tracker-type response on a remote console.