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quality of square pistons from ClassicMidiWorks

Building organ consoles for use with Hauptwerk, adding MIDI to existing consoles, obtaining parts, ...
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fermata

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quality of square pistons from ClassicMidiWorks

PostMon Sep 26, 2016 5:43 pm

Has anyone using square pistons from Classic Midi Works found problems with them? I was told that the square ones wear out more quickly than the round ones, which cost a lot more. Exactly what "more quickly" means is what I'm trying to determine. How long will they last? Does anyone regret having purchased them?
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telemanr

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Re: quality of square pistons from ClassicMidiWorks

PostMon Sep 26, 2016 5:59 pm

I have the square pistons on 4 manuals for about 10 years. No problems.
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Grant_Youngman

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Re: quality of square pistons from ClassicMidiWorks

PostMon Sep 26, 2016 9:27 pm

When I bought my 3 midi works keyboards in 2007, my recollection is that the round pistons weren't being offered yet. It seems that new features like these are always announced just after I've purchased something :-)

So far, the square pistons have continued to work just fine, with no problems of any kind.
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OrganoPleno

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Re: quality of square pistons from ClassicMidiWorks

PostTue Sep 27, 2016 10:53 am

fermata wrote:Has anyone using square pistons from Classic Midi Works found problems with them?


I think they click when you press them. The round ones are silent and smooth. That, plus how they look, is probably about the only difference.
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organtechnology

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Re: quality of square pistons from ClassicMidiWorks

PostTue Sep 27, 2016 12:48 pm

OrganoPleno wrote:
fermata wrote:Has anyone using square pistons from Classic Midi Works found problems with them?


I think they click when you press them. The round ones are silent and smooth. That, plus how they look, is probably about the only difference.


That is probably because the square switches are indeed conventional switches and the round ones are reed switches with a moving magnet.
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fermata

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Re: quality of square pistons from ClassicMidiWorks

PostTue Sep 27, 2016 5:57 pm

Yay! Thank you all! Actually, I would prefer a "click" in order to feel I've made contact. I'm glad to know that they are NOT inferior in quality and will not break down. (Yessss....!!) [pic of smily face emoticon, which I cannot seem to drag into this spot]
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NickNelson

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Re: quality of square pistons from ClassicMidiWorks

PostWed Sep 28, 2016 3:33 am

Actually, I wouldn't worry at all about the reliabilty/longevity of simple push-to-make switches. In the circumstances in which they are used for HW (low voltage, low current, absence of adverse environmental conditions) just about anything will last a very long time.

I suppose if you are planning on spending big money on them it might matter to you but I pay about 30p each for the ones I use and have spares in case one ever needs replacing. It would be a five minute job though I don't expect ever to have to do it.

Aesthetics is much more important - how they look and feel, how easy they are to install, whether you want them illuminated or not, whether you want them numbered, labelled, different colours or not - these are the things you need to be concerned with.

Nick
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GrahamH

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Re: quality of square pistons from ClassicMidiWorks

PostWed Sep 28, 2016 4:16 am

I would add just one caveat to what Nick has written above.
There are some low cost metal push-button switches similar to these

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/5pcs-White-Bu ... Swu1VW3GFm

that look quite good and are probably OK in a car dashboard. Unfortunately they are not altogether reliable as "thumb pistons" because sometimes there is a bit of "stiction" in the action which means they don't always close at the first press.
Before ordering a large batch of switches it is advisable to order a small quantity to test their suitability. Plastic ones, rather than metal, are generally OK.

Graham
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Antoni Scott

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Re: quality of square pistons from ClassicMidiWorks

PostWed Sep 28, 2016 9:43 am

The quality of the square pistons is fine it's their feel that don't like. I've had mine since 2008 and they all still work. They do have a "feel" to them like a micro-switch, but as a piston they are 100% functional . I bought a fourth keyboard but this time piston-less. I planned to add pistons from a discarded organ but found out that conventional pistons interfere with the key travel when depressed. I then found a discarded Lowrey organ from the 1960's with conventional pipe-organ pistons , but they were mounted in a housing which moved them away from the key-travel about 1/2 inch. They had that nice feel to them that an organist is familiar with. I was fortunate to find these pistons with housings already on them.

If you are planning to "replace" square pistons with round ones, keep in mind that they have to be special pistons that don't interfere with key travel. Also, if you did what I did, adding pistons to a piston-less keyboard, it will require an additional digital scanning board which are not inexpensive. I already had a digital scanning board for my toe pistons and couplers so had enough remaining "positions" left on the board for the additional thumb pistons.

I do prefer the round conventional thumb pistons. You might want to ask yourself how many do you actually need. Right now I have sixty square pistons, twenty round ones (bottom keyboard) , and twenty-two toe pistons !!!! Personally, I use toe pistons most of the time. I only use the same ten round pistons and about eight toe pistons 99% of the time. Hope that helps.

Antoni
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fermata

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Re: quality of square pistons from ClassicMidiWorks

PostSat Oct 01, 2016 7:43 pm

Antoni, can you tell me what you program the 10 manual pistons and 8 toe pistons for? Also, do you use the touch screen while playing, or only for setting up? Thanks!
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TheOrganDoc

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Re: quality of square pistons from ClassicMidiWorks

PostSun Oct 02, 2016 1:04 pm

fermata wrote:Yay! Thank you all! Actually, I would prefer a "click" in order to feel I've made contact. I'm glad to know that they are NOT inferior in quality and will not break down.


BTW,
Please listen for, What an Older Pipe Organ Sounds like when you Press a Piston,

It Actually Sounds like someone Shot a Pistol in the hall, ---- > (See Brackets Below) <----

There are a few original Organ recordings on "U Tube", that will provide you with (Original, ?) Piston Sounds !

We Hauptwerkers are "Spoilt" from the lack of Pipe organ noises, that "HW nicely provides us.

Some samplers actually recorded the noises, and allow us to reproduce them at will. :wink:

(Every stop-tab on many Pipe Organs has a small Pneumatic bellows, that Pulls the Stop on,
and another that pulls the Stop off,)

(Sooooooo, whenever you touch a General Piston, you will hear as many Pneumatic's pop as there are Stops on the organ , Could be Hundreds ! :oops: )

(Also, most classical Pipe Organs utilize a Tripper Combination device, that utilizes a Very Large
Pneumatic Bellows, or a large Electric Solenoid, That produce essentially the same, (POW) Sound ! :roll: )

The little click of a Tactile-Switch,
is just "different", and peaceful, within our Homes !

Among-st the Many Benefits that HW provides us with, (One, that I Love especially ) is that once our sample sets are Tuned to our Pleasure !
Re-Re-Re-Tuning, Is not needed .
(Yea) , But I'm happy that I don't have to rely On Tuning, to make a living with today !

In HW in some Sample Sets, you might be able to actuate the original (POW) sound,
that you would have heard, "on the original Pipe Organ" when touching a Piston!

Best Wishes to All !
Mel..............TheOrganDoc...............

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