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Storing combinations on headless console

Building organ consoles for use with Hauptwerk, adding MIDI to existing consoles, obtaining parts, ...

Storing combinations on headless console

Postby GADV » Tue Oct 30, 2018 5:11 pm

Hi there,

I'm very new to the workings of the Hauptwerk system and have recently purchased the Basic edition and have started experimenting with it and working my way through the instruction manual.

In the meantime, my friend is an organ builder who purchased a 3 manual Bradford electronic which has a wonderful drawstop, solid wood-finish console. He'd like to convert it to function with HW, instead of the aging original electronics, and sell the final product as an 'electronic' organ with a fixed stop-list as per the engravings on the drawstops.

My profession is in electronics and I'm a bit of an organ nut, so he's tasked me to get the whole system working. I'd like the above described console to operate in an entirely headless manner, if possible, as I imagine that the potential customers would not be too interested in trying to fathom out the intricacies of HW.

So to my query: Is it possible to configure or operate the capture system in HW like a simple PO capture system where a memory channel/level is selected directly by MIDI command and the piston combinations are assigned to that memory when the Set button is toggled ON and retrieved when Set is OFF?

If it is possible to do this, how does one exercise this functionality using the Registration panel?

So far, through experimentation with the Registration panel in conjunction with the instructions, I have not managed to achieve this aim. Instead, it seems that one has to create combinations and save them into different files (Combs01, Combs02, etc) and then assign each of these files to the Cued favourites list, which can then be selected and loaded via MIDI commands.

Is my thinking correct thus far?

The problem with this method is that interfacing with HW via a screen and mouse is needed which frustrates the project's headless requirement.

I've read one or two posts on the forum relating to headless operation but didn't seem to find an answer or helpful details relating to the above query.

Thanks in advance for any assistance. :)

Gary
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Re: Storing combinations on headless console

Postby magnaton » Tue Oct 30, 2018 6:43 pm

GADV wrote:Hi there,
So to my query: Is it possible to configure or operate the capture system in HW like a simple PO capture system where a memory channel/level is selected directly by MIDI command and the piston combinations are assigned to that memory when the Set button is toggled ON and retrieved when Set is OFF?

If it is possible to do this, how does one exercise this functionality using the Registration panel?

Yes this can be done as you can find postings and pictures of many headless HW systems in use. As you know, organ pistons are spring loaded (like computer keys) and when using HW's Autodetect feature you can select a momentary function. So when the piston is pressed the function is evoked like the "Set" piston and released when you let go just as you'd expect.

Some rocker tabs and most modern drawbars are also spring loaded. For these you'd want the latch functionality so press and release the stop or coupler is "On" press again for "Off". See pages 219 & 220 in the HW 4.2.1 User's guide for more details.

The majority of sample sets have virtual pistons available for you to use that are visible on the respective organ console screen. Hauptwerk also provides a generous amount of built in or native additional combination buttons to use. These can be autodetected too. See page 78.

Finally, just about any organist standard or advanced operator function; i.e. Mem Levels, Transpose, Bass coupler, Melody coupler, shut computer down, etc. can be assigned to any console control that emits a valid MIDI signal!

Danny B.
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Re: Storing combinations on headless console

Postby mkc1 » Mon Nov 05, 2018 6:45 pm

GADV wrote:So far, through experimentation with the Registration panel in conjunction with the instructions, I have not managed to achieve this aim. Instead, it seems that one has to create combinations and save them into different files (Combs01, Combs02, etc) and then assign each of these files to the Cued favourites list, which can then be selected and loaded via MIDI commands.

Is my thinking correct thus far?

The problem with this method is that interfacing with HW via a screen and mouse is needed which frustrates the project's headless requirement.

I believe you are mostly correct. However, the cued favourites list can be displayed on a MIDI LCD Panel, which I believe would eliminate the need for a screen/mouse? Also, as pipe organ combination actions become more complex, it's not that unusual for small touch screens to be incorporated into consoles to control them.

From the description of the new console at Notre Dame de Paris: "the newly rebuilt instrument itself has a touch-screen panel that can note “favorite” stop combinations like a browser bookmarks a Web page."

One can load favourite organs directly with a MIDI signal (General Settings -> Advanced MIDI Applications -> MIDI/key triggers for loading organs and other global menu functions) but unfortunately there doesn't appear to be a similar facility to load favourite combination sets.
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Re: Storing combinations on headless console

Postby GADV » Tue Nov 06, 2018 5:20 pm

Thanks Danny B and mkc1 for the helpful responses.

mkc1, you are correct wrt the MIDI LCD Panel being able to display the selected cued combination number and its associated combination file when clicking the left and right arrows, which may be assigned to MIDI input trigger switches.

However, the problem still remains as to how to select a combination filename where the present combination that has been set will be stored without the need for a computer monitor, keyboard and mouse.

I noticed that right-clicking on the Save button (to the right of Combinations) brings up the dialog box allowing the button to be assigned to a MIDI trigger input. This is only partially useful. The problem is how to, using MIDI triggers, to select a different file to which new combinations may be stored. The Save As button is also not MIDI triggerable.

Similarly, the Load button can not able to be assigned a MIDI trigger, so how does one select a different combination file using MIDI triggers?

In my mind, it would be useful if the Load and Save buttons could be MIDI triggerable and MIDI triggerable arrows added which will permit stepping through the list of combination files (Comb1, Comb2, etc). The selected file name could be transmitted out via MIDI to an LCD. This is effectively a copy of the Cued functionality.

Perhaps I need contact Technical Assistance on this one.
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Re: Storing combinations on headless console

Postby mkc1 » Tue Nov 06, 2018 5:27 pm

The load and save buttons appear to be MIDI triggerable, as do the left and right arrows on each side of the window where the combination number/set name is displayed. The arrows appear to cycle through a predefined list of 32 combinations sets, which can then be loaded via the 'Load' button.
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Re: Storing combinations on headless console

Postby brooke.benfield » Tue Nov 06, 2018 8:13 pm

"The problem is how to, using MIDI triggers, to select a different file to which new combinations may be stored. The Save As button is also not MIDI triggerable."

It sounds to me like GAVD wants, while working with an existing loaded CombsXX file, to save new registrations to a different CombsXX that isn't currently loaded.

I can see a way to do this because loading a new CombsXX file will not change the current registration. So simply load a new CombsXX and save the registration to a general/piston/stepper frame within the new CombsXX file.

We are limited to 32 favorites that can be scrolled through and loaded via MIDI signals but are not limited in how many "Combs" files we can have/use. I forget just how to change which Combs files show in the favorites list but it can be done, albeit with the computer mouse/keyboard/monitor interface.
Brooke Benfield
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Portland OR
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Re: Storing combinations on headless console

Postby magnaton » Tue Nov 06, 2018 9:34 pm

GADV wrote:I noticed that right-clicking on the Save button (to the right of Combinations) brings up the dialog box allowing the button to be assigned to a MIDI trigger input. This is only partially useful. The problem is how to, using MIDI triggers, to select a different file to which new combinations may be stored. The Save As button is also not MIDI triggerable.

brooke.benfield wrote:I forget just how to change which Combs files show in the favorites list but it can be done, albeit with the computer mouse/keyboard/monitor interface.

There is somewhat an overlooked menu under Organ Settings:
MIDI/Key Triggers for Master Pistons and Menu Functions for This Organ.
At the very bottom of the list is Advanced Items
When you click on that you'll see an extensive list of additoinal MIDI assignable items including;
Registrations comb set. favorite: xx (01-32)

So here you can assign a piston or some other MIDI button to a specific "favorite" combination set (think memory levels) up to 32. Each "physical" combination file that is saved to disc can each have their own respective 32 favorites.

This is probably not what are actually needing but could be an alternative, say assigning 5 separate pistons to a particular favorite memory level.

As a quick brain storm, you could incorporate a LaunchPad Mini in a slide out drawer under the keydesk. which would give enough buttons for all 32 favorites!
https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/LaunchP2mini--novation-launchpad-mini



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Re: Storing combinations on headless console

Postby mkc1 » Tue Nov 06, 2018 10:04 pm

magnaton wrote:There is somewhat an overlooked menu under Organ Settings:
MIDI/Key Triggers for Master Pistons and Menu Functions for This Organ.
At the very bottom of the list is Advanced Items
When you click on that you'll see an extensive list of additoinal MIDI assignable items including;
Registrations comb set. favorite: xx (01-32)
Oh, thanks, that's what I was trying to find! Something like a rotary switch could be encoded so that each position of the switch causes a different MIDI message to be sent and each message triggers a different favourite combination set to be loaded. 12's probably about the maximum one could do with a single switch...perhaps a second switch to select a "bank" could allow 24 different favourites to be selected (or 4 "banks" with 8 levels each to access the full 32.)
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Re: Storing combinations on headless console

Postby GADV » Wed Nov 07, 2018 4:50 pm

Many thanks for all the wonderful responses from everyone!

magnaton has the answer!

There is somewhat an overlooked menu under Organ Settings:
MIDI/Key Triggers for Master Pistons and Menu Functions for This Organ.
At the very bottom of the list is Advanced Items
When you click on that you'll see an extensive list of additoinal MIDI assignable items including;
Registrations comb set. favorite: xx (01-32)


Using the advanced MIDI feature triggers (Registration: comb. set: favorite[01..32]) does the exact trick that mimics a standard PO capture system, well certainly like the old SSL types that I've come across here in SA do.

In addition to this clue, K P suggested another indispensable setting which satisfies my requirement: General Settings->General preferences->auto-save combination sets->silently save combinations to current combination set.

Using the advanced MIDI settings allows any 'memory channel' or favourite to be selected and automatically load the comb[01..32] file directly into HW allowing it to be modified 'on the fly' and with minimal hassle.

I'll build a custom piece of hardware, perhaps using a rotary encoder as a selector, to allow the selection of the 'memory channel' and will incorporate an LCD or perhaps some 7segments to show which channel is selected.

Super, perhaps this issue is closed for now.... I'm sure there'll be other questions from me soon.

Thanks again!
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