It is currently Sat May 30, 2020 1:53 pm


Adding Swell / Crescendo Pedals

Building organ consoles for use with Hauptwerk, adding MIDI to existing consoles, obtaining parts, ...
  • Author
  • Message
Offline

JohnPrincipal8

Member

  • Posts: 22
  • Joined: Wed Sep 11, 2019 5:46 am

Adding Swell / Crescendo Pedals

PostThu Jan 30, 2020 8:47 pm

Hi
I am new to Hauptwerk and am loving it though it has been a hard slog as I am not a computer savvy person. I have built for myself a 3 manual plus built my own pedals. I am doing this on the cheap mind you as I can't afford the expensive gear. I am wondering if it is possible to add swell /crescendo pedals and how to do it. I have an old National organ that no longer works and it has one pedal (crescendo I think) plus some levers for swell, reverb control. Can I use these and does anyone have suggestions where to look to achieve this. I have tried to look but have not found anything yet
Thanks
John
Offline

jkinkennon

Member

  • Posts: 1100
  • Joined: Thu May 07, 2009 10:43 am
  • Location: Vancouver, WA

Re: Adding Swell / Crescendo Pedals

PostThu Jan 30, 2020 9:32 pm

Check out this post. viewtopic.php?f=15&t=10400&hilit=swell+pedal

I've done similar linkages many times, never exactly the same way. This approach would work with simple hinged wooden pedals.
Offline
User avatar

NickNelson

Member

  • Posts: 823
  • Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2005 11:31 am
  • Location: Leeds, UK

Re: Adding Swell / Crescendo Pedals

PostFri Jan 31, 2020 3:49 am

This is how have done it:

Image

Hinged plate, (the hinge a quality one I happened to have lying about, probably anything reasonably robust would do).
Two linkages, the top (brass) to the potentiometer, the bottom (aluminum) for friction, the metals don't matter at all.
Linear slide potentiometer, the actual travel used is only about the middle third, HW will sort this out with no problem.
Assorted bits of timber /plywood, anything that comes to hand.
Self adhesive felt and/or foam pads as required to quieten things where necessary, and for friction.

Theoretically, the geometry of the potentiometer linkage makes the response non-linear. For the same angular rotation the change in resistance is somewhat different at the 'closed' end of travel than at the 'open' end. I haven't found this a problem in practice.

If it helps, I could do a 'proper' detail drawing, but not until after the weekend. By then you might find the thread moved to the 'DIY Organ Consoles/MIDI' section.

Nick
Offline
User avatar

mdyde

Moderator

  • Posts: 12060
  • Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2003 2:19 pm
  • Location: UK

Re: Adding Swell / Crescendo Pedals

PostFri Jan 31, 2020 5:48 am

[Topic moved here.]
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.
Offline

JohnPrincipal8

Member

  • Posts: 22
  • Joined: Wed Sep 11, 2019 5:46 am

Re: Adding Swell / Crescendo Pedals

PostMon Feb 24, 2020 4:19 am

Hi Nick
I have managed to get the crescendo/swell pedal off my old organ and going by your pic there is only a few pieces of metal in it. If I can work out how to attach a pic of it I will do so, but it is all metal, but I am making a copy in wood, so does there need to be any particular pieces of metal for any conductivity reasons? If you have the time to do some detailed drawings I would greatly appreciate it.
Nope I cannot work out to get a pic on here and as I am doing this on my iPad that doesn’t help as I can’t seem to copy and paste.
Cheers
John
Offline

brooke.benfield

Member

  • Posts: 162
  • Joined: Fri Apr 10, 2009 11:38 am
  • Location: Oregon City

Re: Adding Swell / Crescendo Pedals

PostMon Feb 24, 2020 6:01 pm

High JohnPrincipal8;

The only part of a crescendo/swell pedal that needs to conduct electricity is the potentiometer. All the rest of the unit can be of any suitable material.
Brooke Benfield
Organist, Gethsemane Lutheran Church
Portland OR
Offline
User avatar

NickNelson

Member

  • Posts: 823
  • Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2005 11:31 am
  • Location: Leeds, UK

Re: Adding Swell / Crescendo Pedals

PostTue Feb 25, 2020 9:40 am

brooke.benfield wrote:The only part of a crescendo/swell pedal that needs to conduct electricity is the potentiometer. All the rest of the unit can be of any suitable material.


Just so, though the friction strip at the bottom, and to a lesser extent the potentiometer linkage from the top corner of the pedal, will at times be under compression as well as tension.

Image

The drawing above gives some more detail, as well as a sense of scale.

The only important mechanical part is the hinge (in black on the drawing) which should be of really good quality. I happened to have one lying about which, I think, was intended for use on a fire door. It is very solidly made, smooth in operation, and has very little (if any) 'play' in its movement.

The potentiometer is a 10k Ohms linear, with an overall length of 60mm. Not all the travel is used, but I wouldn't use a shorter one unless absolutely necessary since the geometry of the linkage might become rather difficult to determine.

The 'buffers' where the pedal hits the frame are self-adhesive felt pads, and there are also two providing friction against the strip at the bottom. The geometry of the arrangement isn't critical, I seem to recall trying to find out if there were RCO/AGO recommendations for the limits of the pedal travel but couldn't find any. On mine the pedal varies from between 30 (closed) and 60 (open) degrees from the vertical. The width of the pedal is about 12 cm (4 1/2 inches) which might be a bit narrow I suppose.

The whole assembly is bolted to the back edge of the pedal board through the bottom plate.

Good luck,

Nick
Last edited by NickNelson on Wed Mar 11, 2020 1:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
Offline

JohnPrincipal8

Member

  • Posts: 22
  • Joined: Wed Sep 11, 2019 5:46 am

Re: Adding Swell / Crescendo Pedals

PostWed Feb 26, 2020 8:27 am

Hi Nick
Thanks very much for that. I now need to do some homework on potentiometers and how to use them. I have a big learning curve coming up which I hope I will enjoy. As the saying goes, you learn something new every day and this will be first for me.
Cheers
John
Offline

JohnPrincipal8

Member

  • Posts: 22
  • Joined: Wed Sep 11, 2019 5:46 am

Re: Adding Swell / Crescendo Pedals

PostWed Feb 26, 2020 8:01 pm

Hi Nick
Sorry to bother you again, but looking at the potentiometers there are an aweful lot of them. What size/amp etc do I need and also resistors. Can't seem to find any sites with specific details on this subject, guitars yes, but not keyboards!
Thanks
John
Offline
User avatar

NickNelson

Member

  • Posts: 823
  • Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2005 11:31 am
  • Location: Leeds, UK

Re: Adding Swell / Crescendo Pedals

PostThu Feb 27, 2020 8:14 am

Hi John,

if you type:

10k linear 60mm

into an ebay search you will find some, any of which would do probably.

It would help to know whether you are in the UK (or elsewhere).

Nick
Offline

JohnPrincipal8

Member

  • Posts: 22
  • Joined: Wed Sep 11, 2019 5:46 am

Re: Adding Swell / Crescendo Pedals

PostTue Mar 10, 2020 11:04 pm

Hi N I know I am in Australia, South Australia.
Cheers
Offline

larason2

Member

  • Posts: 123
  • Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2016 10:32 pm

Re: Adding Swell / Crescendo Pedals

PostTue Mar 10, 2020 11:51 pm

Offline
User avatar

engrssc

Member

  • Posts: 6418
  • Joined: Mon Aug 22, 2005 11:12 pm
  • Location: Roscoe, IL, USA

Re: Adding Swell / Crescendo Pedals

PostTue Apr 21, 2020 9:53 am

Is John asking how to program (setup) Hauptwerk's Master Crescendo feature?

Rgds,
Ed
Offline

JohnPrincipal8

Member

  • Posts: 22
  • Joined: Wed Sep 11, 2019 5:46 am

Re: Adding Swell / Crescendo Pedals

PostSun Apr 26, 2020 4:08 am

Hi Ed
Sorry I didn't see your post sooner, but yes I would like to be able to set up a crescendo pedal and (a swell if I am ever able to master the art of Hauptwerk. I have pulled the crescendo pedal from my old National organ which doesn't work anymore and I have bought (hopefully!) the right bits and pieces to do that, but i have been busy with other things that have cropped up and been a bit more urgent so the organ has gone on the back burner for a while.
I hate to admit it, but I am going to invest in a new computer as I am having too many problems with my old one. Everything does work in my current situation just not all the time and not necessarily in the correct order. I have never known a computer to do so many crazy things. Anyway I will hopefully be able to get this new computer to fit what I need out out of it. in short Ed I do need all the help that I can get.
Cheers
John

Return to DIY organ consoles / MIDI

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Majestic-12 [Bot] and 4 guests