It is currently Sat Jan 16, 2021 9:17 pm


Seeking Help midifying Moller Pedalboard

Building organ consoles for use with Hauptwerk, adding MIDI to existing consoles, obtaining parts, ...
  • Author
  • Message
Offline

russ_major

Member

  • Posts: 14
  • Joined: Tue Sep 22, 2020 12:19 pm

Seeking Help midifying Moller Pedalboard

PostTue Sep 22, 2020 4:53 pm

Hello to all, I am new to this forum and was wondering if I could get some guidance as how to midify this pedalboard I purchased. The pedalboard is from a Moller Pipe Organ (I was told) only cost me 75 bucks, so why not?

It looks like it has reed switches and it also seems as if there are magnets inside of it already. I'm just not sure as to how to proceed to get it to connected via midi. It has three 11 pin connectors as well.

Here are some photos of the pedalboard.

Image Image Image Image

Any assistance or guidance as to how to proceed will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.
Offline
User avatar

engrssc

Member

  • Posts: 6823
  • Joined: Mon Aug 22, 2005 10:12 pm
  • Location: Roscoe, IL, USA

Re: Seeking Help midifying Moller Pedalboard

PostTue Sep 22, 2020 6:16 pm

You will need to ID which wire goes to which (reed) switch. You can cut off the connectors, and strip each wire to do a continuity check. You can do a visual by unbundling the wires or you "ring" them out with an ohm meter or a battery and a low voltage light. You can use a piece of tape and write down which note - C, C#, D, etc. You will need to ID each note by the octave. For instance the lowest C as C1, the next octave C as C2 etc. That's just to know where to connect each of the wires. No doubt it appears there probably is one common wire (to each reed switch) as well.

A suggested encoder which is made for such a pedal board is:

https://www.midi-hardware.com/index.php?section=prod_info&product=BBSP&R2=USD

which is used with a master controller:

https://www.midi-hardware.com/index.php?section=prod_info&product=MRG2&R2=USD

Rgds,
Ed
Offline
User avatar

engrssc

Member

  • Posts: 6823
  • Joined: Mon Aug 22, 2005 10:12 pm
  • Location: Roscoe, IL, USA

Re: Seeking Help midifying Moller Pedalboard

PostTue Sep 22, 2020 7:26 pm

BTW, the above was just meant to give a basic idea of what needs to be done leaving out details. And there is no one right way. The "how to" will vary greatly depending on one's experience, available tools and hardware. Then, too, there is budget. I say basic idea not knowing how comfortable you are for instance with soldering or electronic construction techniques.

For instance, I would remove the existing wires and replace them with 2 - 16 conductor ribbon cables and terminate them with 2 - 16 pin IDC connectors which would plug directly into the above BBSP encoder.

{And some of the fellas here will no doubt remind me that the lowest pedalboard C is (normally) designated as C zero, not C 1 :roll: } Just designated C1 above for simplicity.

Rgds,
Ed
Offline

russ_major

Member

  • Posts: 14
  • Joined: Tue Sep 22, 2020 12:19 pm

Re: Seeking Help midifying Moller Pedalboard

PostTue Sep 22, 2020 7:52 pm

engrssc wrote:You will need to ID which wire goes to which (reed) switch. You can cut off the connectors, and strip each wire to do a continuity check. You can do a visual by unbundling the wires or you "ring" them out with an ohm meter or a battery and a low voltage light. You can use a piece of tape and write down which note - C, C#, D, etc. You will need to ID each note by the octave. For instance the lowest C as C1, the next octave C as C2 etc. That's just to know where to connect each of the wires. No doubt it appears there probably is one common wire (to each reed switch) as well.

A suggested encoder which is made for such a pedal board is:

https://www.midi-hardware.com/index.php?section=prod_info&product=BBSP&R2=USD

which is used with a master controller:

https://www.midi-hardware.com/index.php?section=prod_info&product=MRG2&R2=USD

Rgds,
Ed


Thanks a lot! I think this is very helpful. This gives me an idea of how to proceed. Any more information that you have I will gladly accept. If you feel up to it, the details would be great too! (lol)

Best,
Russ
Offline

russ_major

Member

  • Posts: 14
  • Joined: Tue Sep 22, 2020 12:19 pm

Re: Seeking Help midifying Moller Pedalboard

PostTue Sep 22, 2020 7:55 pm

engrssc wrote:BTW, the above was just meant to give a basic idea of what needs to be done leaving out details. And there is no one right way. The "how to" will vary greatly depending on one's experience, available tools and hardware. Then, too, there is budget. I say basic idea not knowing how comfortable you are for instance with soldering or electronic construction techniques.

For instance, I would remove the existing wires and replace them with 2 - 16 conductor ribbon cables and terminate them with 2 - 16 pin IDC connectors which would plug directly into the above BBSP encoder.

{And some of the fellas here will no doubt remind me that the lowest pedalboard C is (normally) designated as C zero, not C 1 :roll: } Just designated C1 above for simplicity.

Rgds,
Ed


I prematurely ordered a terminated ribbon cable and an encoder already. So I'm assuming I'd just replace the existing wires with the ribbon cable as you stated, plug it into the encoder, and so on and so forth...

I'm pretty cool with soldering so I'm not necessarily worried about that. Is that the best way to go about it? Or are there other ways that may be better?
Offline

larason2

Member

  • Posts: 223
  • Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2016 9:32 pm

Re: Seeking Help midifying Moller Pedalboard

PostTue Sep 22, 2020 9:49 pm

Personally, I wouldn’t replace the wires with ribbon cable. I feel that figuring out which wire goes where is not as time consuming as resoldering them all. If you can find the female plugs for the 11 pin sockets, that would be even better. You could just strip the ribbon cable ends and solder them to the plug. You could also cut the 11 pin plugs off the wires and solder them and the ribbon cable ends together on a proto board. I figure either way, it will save you time. Just my opinion.
Offline

russ_major

Member

  • Posts: 14
  • Joined: Tue Sep 22, 2020 12:19 pm

Re: Seeking Help midifying Moller Pedalboard

PostTue Sep 22, 2020 10:01 pm

larason2 wrote:Personally, I wouldn’t replace the wires with ribbon cable. I feel that figuring out which wire goes where is not as time consuming as resoldering them all. If you can find the female plugs for the 11 pin sockets, that would be even better. You could just strip the ribbon cable ends and solder them to the plug. You could also cut the 11 pin plugs off the wires and solder them and the ribbon cable ends together on a proto board. I figure either way, it will save you time. Just my opinion.


I like this idea as well! Strongly considering this. This makes a lot of sense and I agree it will save time. Thanks a bunch!
Offline
User avatar

engrssc

Member

  • Posts: 6823
  • Joined: Mon Aug 22, 2005 10:12 pm
  • Location: Roscoe, IL, USA

Re: Seeking Help midifying Moller Pedalboard

PostTue Sep 22, 2020 10:59 pm

Since a BBSP encoder board is very small, 1.7" X 1.3", what I was going to suggest was to mount this PCB conveniently in the center of the p/b with one ribbon cable connecting the switches to the right, and the other ribbon cable connecting the switches to the left, each of the ribbon cables plugging into the center mounted encoder. Makes for a very neat installation. No splices or extra parts. BTW, mating 11 pin female connectors cost approx $20 each. Soldering wires directly to a ribbon cable is not a good idea, neither is using any additional intermediate connecting devices. A good rule to follow is that the fewer connection points, the better. Soldering 32 contacts (reed switches) isn't a big deal. :wink: After everything is tested, you can use something like clear caulking to fasten the flat ribbon cable to the pedalboard. I usually use masking tape temporarily (overnight) to hold a ribbon cable in place until the caulking dries.

The BBSP encoder connects to the master controller by a small 4 wire cable (approx 1/4" in diameter). The provided 200 cm (approx 78") permits mounting the master controlling in any convenient location. MIDI In and MIDI Out 5 wire din connectors are on thd master controller which also is quite small. (2.8" X 1.3")

If your computer is a PC, you can verify the MIDI messages by using MidiOx:

http://www.midiox.com

For a Mac there's MIDI Monitor:

https://www.snoize.com/.

Both are free downloads.

Rgds,
Ed
Last edited by engrssc on Tue Sep 22, 2020 11:10 pm, edited 5 times in total.
Offline
User avatar

NickNelson

Member

  • Posts: 848
  • Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2005 10:31 am
  • Location: Yorkshire, UK

Re: Seeking Help midifying Moller Pedalboard

PostTue Sep 22, 2020 11:01 pm

Without a clear sense of scale it's difficult to be sure, but the plugs look very like 11-pin valve (tube) bases to me. If so, matching plugs and sockets are still available ( eg https://www.langrex.co.uk/product-category/valve-bases/).

Nick
Offline

russ_major

Member

  • Posts: 14
  • Joined: Tue Sep 22, 2020 12:19 pm

Re: Seeking Help midifying Moller Pedalboard

PostTue Sep 22, 2020 11:46 pm

engrssc wrote:Since a BBSP encoder board is very small, 1.7" X 1.3", what I was going to suggest was to mount this PCB conveniently in the center of the p/b with one ribbon cable connecting the switches to the right, and the other ribbon cable connecting the switches to the left, each of the ribbon cables plugging into the center mounted encoder. Makes for a very neat installation. No splices or extra parts. BTW, mating 11 pin female connectors cost approx $20 each. Soldering wires directly to a ribbon cable is not a good idea, neither is using any additional intermediate connecting devices. A good rule to follow is that the fewer connection points, the better. Soldering 32 contacts (reed switches) isn't a big deal. :wink: After everything is tested, you can use something like clear caulking to fasten the flat ribbon cable to the pedalboard. I usually use masking tape temporarily (overnight) to hold a ribbon cable in place until the caulking dries.

The BBSP encoder connects to the master controller by a small 4 wire cable (approx 1/4" in diameter). The provided 200 cm (approx 78") permits mounting the master controlling in any convenient location. MIDI In and MIDI Out 5 wire din connectors are on thd master controller which also is quite small. (2.8" X 1.3")

If your computer is a PC, you can verify the MIDI messages by using MidiOx:

http://www.midiox.com

For a Mac there's MIDI Monitor:

https://www.snoize.com/.

Both are free downloads.

Rgds,
Ed


Ok this is opening my eyes to other possibilities. I have a question. What about cutting off the 11 pin connectors and wiring those wires into a crimp connector housing (female header) that can plug directly into the PCB? Is that an option?
Last edited by russ_major on Tue Sep 22, 2020 11:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Offline

russ_major

Member

  • Posts: 14
  • Joined: Tue Sep 22, 2020 12:19 pm

Re: Seeking Help midifying Moller Pedalboard

PostTue Sep 22, 2020 11:47 pm

NickNelson wrote:Without a clear sense of scale it's difficult to be sure, but the plugs look very like 11-pin valve (tube) bases to me. If so, matching plugs and sockets are still available ( eg https://www.langrex.co.uk/product-category/valve-bases/).

Nick


Thanks Nick!
Offline
User avatar

engrssc

Member

  • Posts: 6823
  • Joined: Mon Aug 22, 2005 10:12 pm
  • Location: Roscoe, IL, USA

Re: Seeking Help midifying Moller Pedalboard

PostWed Sep 23, 2020 12:31 am

As far as time, unless there is a special need or circumstance, what's the rush? :shock: Take some time and enjoy the experience of your creation. :) Even with cable prep, figuring 2 minutes per connection, that's just slightly over one hour. While the first connections may take a little longer, as you proceed, you will get better at it. Very likely it will take less than an hour.

A technique I use with ribbon cables in this type of configuration is to lay the ribbon cable out in the place where it is to be installed. I then take an Exacto knife and carefully make a small cut at the end between each wire. Then you can begin to separate the individual wires separating them one at a time to it's connecting point. I leave a little extra at each point (terminal). Then cut off the excess. Now go back and strip each of these ends. Make sure all the individual strands are twisted together. Followed by (solder) tinning each of those stripped ends. Now these solder tinned wires are soldered each to their respective terminal connection.

BTW, making up a ribbon cable to the IDC connector is really easy to do. Of course you need the correct connector and the correct (number of wires) cable. After inserting the ribbon cable into the IDC connector, I use a small vise to do the squeezing (compression). Yes, there are tools to do this as well. My little vise has been used successfully hundreds of times. Interesting. Roman Sowa (Midi Hardware) makes all of his IDC cables this same way compressing the connector with a small vise. Another preference, I like the (rainbow) colored IDC cables. Less chance of wiring mistakes, that is unless one is color blind. :o A "thing" about buying IDC connectors is the suppliers want you to buy more than you may need. From the old days, I have a left over supply of such as 40 pin connectors that were used in parallel data systems. I haven't seen parallel stuff for probably 40 or more years. Now we move data really fast. I just saw an ad for a new M.2, NVMe drive which has Max Sequential Read Up to 7000 MBps, Max Sequential Write Up to 5000 MBps.

https://www.newegg.com/samsung-1tb-980-pro/p/N82E16820147790?Item=N82E16820147790&Tpk=20-147-790

And, yes, such components (could) have a use in Hauptwerk computers, maybe? 8)

Rgds,
Ed
Last edited by engrssc on Wed Sep 23, 2020 7:36 am, edited 2 times in total.
Offline
User avatar

engrssc

Member

  • Posts: 6823
  • Joined: Mon Aug 22, 2005 10:12 pm
  • Location: Roscoe, IL, USA

Re: Seeking Help midifying Moller Pedalboard

PostWed Sep 23, 2020 12:42 am

russ_major wrote:Ok this is opening my eyes to other possibilities. I have a question. What about cutting off the 11 pin connectors and wiring those wires into a crimp connector housing (female header) that can plug directly into the PCB? Is that an option?


Can't be done. The existing wires are too big. Ribbon cables are made with 26AWG wires. Guessing what you have is something like 18AWG or even 16AWG. As the AWG number gets less, the wire size gets bigger. Go figure. :roll:

Plus you really don't want to try to use (crimp) individual wires with an IDC connector. Even if they were the right gage, bad plan. :cry:

Rdgs,
Ed
Offline
User avatar

engrssc

Member

  • Posts: 6823
  • Joined: Mon Aug 22, 2005 10:12 pm
  • Location: Roscoe, IL, USA

Re: Seeking Help midifying Moller Pedalboard

PostWed Sep 23, 2020 12:56 am

BTW, the new M.2, NVMe drive I mentioned (SAMSUNG 980 PRO) is brand new as of Date First Available September 22, 2020. Preorders only right now. Release Date: 10/12/2020. Limit 2 per customer.

While a little pricey (yet) at $229 USD for 1TB, consider what it can do (for gamers) with that kind of read speed, changing (loading) from one sample set to another will be super fast. 8) To use a very over used word - awesome.- maybe?

(And here I just got used to reads of 3488MBps with my SAMSUNG 970 PRO). This new one is double that. But I'll wait till the price goes down, probably in a year or so.

Rgds,
Ed
Last edited by engrssc on Wed Sep 23, 2020 7:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
Offline
User avatar

engrssc

Member

  • Posts: 6823
  • Joined: Mon Aug 22, 2005 10:12 pm
  • Location: Roscoe, IL, USA

Re: Seeking Help midifying Moller Pedalboard

PostWed Sep 23, 2020 7:24 am

I was reminded by a fellow Hauptwerk constructor that when working with fine wires such with ribbon cables, having good lighting is useful. Also, esp for older eyes, a form of magnification such as

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B007CDJKM2?tag=amz-mkt-chr-us-20&ascsubtag=1ba00-01000-a0049-win10-other-nomod-us000-pcomp-feature-rscomp-wm-5&ref=aa_rscomp

may be needed. (Could be useful for younger eyes as well)

Rgds,
Ed
Next

Return to DIY organ consoles / MIDI

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests