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Seeking Help midifying Moller Pedalboard

Building organ consoles for use with Hauptwerk, adding MIDI to existing consoles, obtaining parts, ...
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russ_major

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Re: Seeking Help midifying Moller Pedalboard

PostWed Sep 23, 2020 7:41 am

engrssc wrote:
russ_major wrote:Ok this is opening my eyes to other possibilities. I have a question. What about cutting off the 11 pin connectors and wiring those wires into a crimp connector housing (female header) that can plug directly into the PCB? Is that an option?


Can't be done. The existing wires are too big. Ribbon cables are made with 26AWG wires. Guessing what you have is something like 18AWG or even 16AWG. As the AWG number gets less, the wire size gets bigger. Go figure. :roll:

Plus you really don't want to try to use (crimp) individual wires with an IDC connector. Even if they were the right gage, bad plan. :cry:

Rdgs,
Ed


Good point. So is there no way to use the existing wires?
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engrssc

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Re: Seeking Help midifying Moller Pedalboard

PostWed Sep 23, 2020 7:58 am

russ_major wrote:Good point. So is there no way to use the existing wires?


Sure you can. As I pointed out in my first post, there is no only one way to do something (like this). However, the pedalboard that you have comes from old school technology that used one wire per contact and big connectors.. Today there is newer technology available if you choose to use it. Modern.organ pedalboards (as well as keyboards both electronic and real wind blown) use matrix systems to minimize wiring, connections, etc. These methods didn't exist when that pedalboard was built. Not saying it's bad, just that there are newer methods to do things today. As others have pointed out, there are other ways to do this project, your call.

Rgds,
Ed
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russ_major

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Re: Seeking Help midifying Moller Pedalboard

PostWed Sep 23, 2020 8:10 am

engrssc wrote:
russ_major wrote:Good point. So is there no way to use the existing wires?


Sure you can. As I pointed out in my first post, there is no only one way to do something (like this). However, the pedalboard that you have comes from old school technology that used one wire per contact and big connectors.. Today there is newer technology available if you choose to use it. Modern.organ pedalboards (as well as keyboards both electronic and real wind blown) use matrix systems to minimize wiring, connections, etc. These methods didn't exist when that pedalboard was built. Not saying it's bad, just that there are newer methods to do things today. As others have pointed out, there are other ways to do this project, your call.

Rgds,
Ed


Okay, I think I'm starting to really understand. I believe I'd like to go this route without really completely removing existing wiring. Do you have a little more detailed instruction on how to go about doing that? From your initial post, I know I would have to purchase the BBSP(seems like two of them, am I right?) and an MRG2.

If that is correct, can you please guide me through the next steps?
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engrssc

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Re: Seeking Help midifying Moller Pedalboard

PostWed Sep 23, 2020 8:59 am

You'll have to reach out to others as in how to use the existing wiring as it's not a method that I have used. What I suggested works reliably and is basically easy to do. The only thing that comes to mind is to use a IDC 16 breakouts, such as:

https://www.midi-hardware.com/index.php?section=prod_info&product=WIPLUG&R2=USD
Just for the record. I don't recommend this method as it is a bit of a rsal kluge and it is quite a bit of work as well.

You would also need 2 - IDC 16 to IDC 16 cables as well.

Possibly a way to do what you want yo do:
For direct soldering of existing wires to a IDC 16 female connector you would need 2 of these WIPLUG2 boards for 32 connections: These boards (connectors) could plug directly to a BBSP.

https://www.midi-hardware.com/index.php?section=prod_info&product=WIPLUG2

As Roman writes:

When MIDIfying an old equipment, it is sometimes better to leave existing wiring as they were, and just cut old circuit boards. To simplify reconnection of old contact wires to MIDI scanner, you may now use the WIPLUG adapter. The wires go to typical screw terminals, but to make installation easier, the terminals are removable (see the picture) in chunks of 4. This way you can secure wires to the plug first in more convenient location, and then plug it into the board. And then connect WIPLUG with any scanner like BBS-1K, BBSP or whatever other board using 16-way pin headers

One WIPLUG is good for up to 32 wires, so in case of using it with BBS-1K you need 2 of them to cover full keyboard. No cables included, you have to make them or source them locally.


Rgds,
Ed
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magnaton

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Re: Seeking Help midifying Moller Pedalboard

PostWed Sep 23, 2020 12:30 pm

Here is an alternative for you. Since you already have 33 separate wires (32 plus common) you can use this encoder combo from Midi Boutique:

https://www.midiboutique.com/mpc32xrs?search=mpc32xrs
https://www.midiboutique.com/bo34?search=bo34

You would basically cut off the amphenol(?) connectors, insert each wire in the correct chromatic sequence into the Bo34 (break out) board, then connect the two boards via their supplied ribbon cable and plugs. You will have to purchase a simple, DC wall wart style power supply for provide the 9 or 12 volts. Send an email to MidiBotique for any particular questions as they are great to work with.

Here is a video of a pedalboard conversion using this encoder. You are ahead of the game as the gentleman in the video also had to install a reed switch assembly.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AoFcEz0MsmI

Danny B.
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russ_major

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Re: Seeking Help midifying Moller Pedalboard

PostWed Sep 23, 2020 6:11 pm

engrssc wrote:You'll have to reach out to others as in how to use the existing wiring as it's not a method that I have used. What I suggested works reliably and is basically easy to do. The only thing that comes to mind is to use a IDC 16 breakouts, such as:

https://www.midi-hardware.com/index.php?section=prod_info&product=WIPLUG&R2=USD
Just for the record. I don't recommend this method as it is a bit of a rsal kluge and it is quite a bit of work as well.

You would also need 2 - IDC 16 to IDC 16 cables as well.

Possibly a way to do what you want yo do:
For direct soldering of existing wires to a IDC 16 female connector you would need 2 of these WIPLUG2 boards for 32 connections: These boards (connectors) could plug directly to a BBSP.

https://www.midi-hardware.com/index.php?section=prod_info&product=WIPLUG2

As Roman writes:

When MIDIfying an old equipment, it is sometimes better to leave existing wiring as they were, and just cut old circuit boards. To simplify reconnection of old contact wires to MIDI scanner, you may now use the WIPLUG adapter. The wires go to typical screw terminals, but to make installation easier, the terminals are removable (see the picture) in chunks of 4. This way you can secure wires to the plug first in more convenient location, and then plug it into the board. And then connect WIPLUG with any scanner like BBS-1K, BBSP or whatever other board using 16-way pin headers

One WIPLUG is good for up to 32 wires, so in case of using it with BBS-1K you need 2 of them to cover full keyboard. No cables included, you have to make them or source them locally.


Rgds,
Ed


Ok no worries, thanks a bunch Ed. You have been a great help and have given me some very helpful advice.
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russ_major

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Re: Seeking Help midifying Moller Pedalboard

PostWed Sep 23, 2020 6:13 pm

magnaton wrote:Here is an alternative for you. Since you already have 33 separate wires (32 plus common) you can use this encoder combo from Midi Boutique:

https://www.midiboutique.com/mpc32xrs?search=mpc32xrs
https://www.midiboutique.com/bo34?search=bo34

You would basically cut off the amphenol(?) connectors, insert each wire in the correct chromatic sequence into the Bo34 (break out) board, then connect the two boards via their supplied ribbon cable and plugs. You will have to purchase a simple, DC wall wart style power supply for provide the 9 or 12 volts. Send an email to MidiBotique for any particular questions as they are great to work with.

Here is a video of a pedalboard conversion using this encoder. You are ahead of the game as the gentleman in the video also had to install a reed switch assembly.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AoFcEz0MsmI

Danny B.


I think this sounds more like something that I would like to do. I will definitely reach out to them. Thank you so much for this!
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dw154515

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Re: Seeking Help midifying Moller Pedalboard

PostWed Sep 23, 2020 8:57 pm

russ_major wrote:
magnaton wrote:Here is an alternative for you. Since you already have 33 separate wires (32 plus common) you can use this encoder combo from Midi Boutique:

https://www.midiboutique.com/mpc32xrs?search=mpc32xrs
https://www.midiboutique.com/bo34?search=bo34

You would basically cut off the amphenol(?) connectors, insert each wire in the correct chromatic sequence into the Bo34 (break out) board, then connect the two boards via their supplied ribbon cable and plugs. You will have to purchase a simple, DC wall wart style power supply for provide the 9 or 12 volts. Send an email to MidiBotique for any particular questions as they are great to work with.

Here is a video of a pedalboard conversion using this encoder. You are ahead of the game as the gentleman in the video also had to install a reed switch assembly.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AoFcEz0MsmI

Danny B.


I think this sounds more like something that I would like to do. I will definitely reach out to them. Thank you so much for this!


Yes, what Danny said. I have used these two parts from MIDI boutique multiple times, and have referred them to others multiple times - and in fact, I'm about to install this exact setup, on this EXACT pedalboard for a friend sometime in the next couple of days.

My pedalboard looks IDENTICAL to yours and mine came off a Wurlitzer toaster organ.... I forget the exact model.... Anyway, just trace out which unique wire goes to which pedal and land them 1-32 on the breakout board. Then your ground/common to pins 33/34.
Drew A. Worthen
Master of Music in Composition - Butler University
http://www.drewworthen.com
Director of Music & Website Admin - Greenwood UMC
http://www.greenwoodumc.org
Field Engineer - Diversified (Formerly Sensory Technologies)
http://www.sensorytechnologies.com
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russ_major

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Re: Seeking Help midifying Moller Pedalboard

PostWed Sep 23, 2020 9:18 pm

dw154515 wrote:
russ_major wrote:
magnaton wrote:Here is an alternative for you. Since you already have 33 separate wires (32 plus common) you can use this encoder combo from Midi Boutique:

https://www.midiboutique.com/mpc32xrs?search=mpc32xrs
https://www.midiboutique.com/bo34?search=bo34

You would basically cut off the amphenol(?) connectors, insert each wire in the correct chromatic sequence into the Bo34 (break out) board, then connect the two boards via their supplied ribbon cable and plugs. You will have to purchase a simple, DC wall wart style power supply for provide the 9 or 12 volts. Send an email to MidiBotique for any particular questions as they are great to work with.

Here is a video of a pedalboard conversion using this encoder. You are ahead of the game as the gentleman in the video also had to install a reed switch assembly.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AoFcEz0MsmI

Danny B.


I think this sounds more like something that I would like to do. I will definitely reach out to them. Thank you so much for this!


Yes, what Danny said. I have used these two parts from MIDI boutique multiple times, and have referred them to others multiple times - and in fact, I'm about to install this exact setup, on this EXACT pedalboard for a friend sometime in the next couple of days.

My pedalboard looks IDENTICAL to yours and mine came off a Wurlitzer toaster organ.... I forget the exact model.... Anyway, just trace out which unique wire goes to which pedal and land them 1-32 on the breakout board. Then your ground/common to pins 33/34.


Thanks a million for confirming. The three connectors only add up to 33 wires, so how do I go about pin 34. Is that something I add? Or is the ground also the common? Probably a silly question (please excuse my ignorance)

Sidebar: Hey man, I have seen what you guys did with the organ at your church. Amazing job btw!
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dw154515

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Re: Seeking Help midifying Moller Pedalboard

PostThu Sep 24, 2020 9:57 am

Yes, pin 33/34 are both ground pins, summed internally, so you can connect to either/or.

Ground and common are the same thing, for all intents and purposes for this conversation. Basically, you should have one wire that is common among all of the reed switches. If you look at the last page of the manual for the part Danny recommended, it has a wiring diagram that explains what I'm talking about.

And feel free to come visit/play the organ at GUMC anytime!
Last edited by dw154515 on Thu Sep 24, 2020 10:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
Drew A. Worthen
Master of Music in Composition - Butler University
http://www.drewworthen.com
Director of Music & Website Admin - Greenwood UMC
http://www.greenwoodumc.org
Field Engineer - Diversified (Formerly Sensory Technologies)
http://www.sensorytechnologies.com
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russ_major

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Re: Seeking Help midifying Moller Pedalboard

PostThu Sep 24, 2020 9:59 am

dw154515 wrote:Yes, pin 33/34 are both ground pins, summed internally, so you can connect to either/or.

And feel free to come visit/play the organ at GUMC anytime!


Thank you for the info!

I appreciate that, thanks for the invite/offer. I would love to hopefully sometime in the near future once all of this stuff dies down.
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dw154515

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Re: Seeking Help midifying Moller Pedalboard

PostSat Sep 26, 2020 10:18 am

Image
Image
Image

Just did this one today, using the MGB MPS32MQ which is a slightly different board, but for all intents and purposes works exactly the same as what Danny mentioned above.
Drew A. Worthen
Master of Music in Composition - Butler University
http://www.drewworthen.com
Director of Music & Website Admin - Greenwood UMC
http://www.greenwoodumc.org
Field Engineer - Diversified (Formerly Sensory Technologies)
http://www.sensorytechnologies.com
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dw154515

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Re: Seeking Help midifying Moller Pedalboard

PostSat Sep 26, 2020 4:13 pm

One little amendment, here....

If you use this particular encoder, the ground has to be on pin 33. On the encoder Danny mentioned, it is 33 and/or 34.
Drew A. Worthen
Master of Music in Composition - Butler University
http://www.drewworthen.com
Director of Music & Website Admin - Greenwood UMC
http://www.greenwoodumc.org
Field Engineer - Diversified (Formerly Sensory Technologies)
http://www.sensorytechnologies.com
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russ_major

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Re: Seeking Help midifying Moller Pedalboard

PostSat Sep 26, 2020 8:06 pm

dw154515 wrote:One little amendment, here....

If you use this particular encoder, the ground has to be on pin 33. On the encoder Danny mentioned, it is 33 and/or 34.


Thanks a lot! Thanks for the pics as well. It looks great. Please keep me updated on the rest of it
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