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CPU Spikes - I've Tried Everything I Can Think Of

Buying or building computers for Hauptwerk, recommendations, troubleshooting computer hardware issues.

Re: CPU Spikes - I've Tried Everything I Can Think Of

Postby brooke.benfield » Fri Dec 07, 2018 2:20 am

organtechnology wrote:
brooke.benfield wrote:I too have had the same trouble with a W10 PC that Drew is reporting and can't wait to get down to the church and try the suggestions Bonanches and evertjan have mentioned. I'll do that this afternoon and will report back as soon as I have determined if it helps or not.


Hi,

What version of Windows 10 are you using?
Windows 10 Home?
Windows 10 Pro?
Windows 10 Enterprise?

Thomas


Hi Thomas;

I'm using Win10 Pro. Is that significant?

And to make good on my promise to report back.....

I went to the church yesterday intending to try out all the suggestions offered up to the point of my previous post. Even though the account I use on the computer has administrator privileges I was not allowed to disable the Run Time Broker or when in PowerShell, allowed to uninstall any apps. The good news is it appears that SuperFetch was my problem because the CPU meter never left the first green line while idling for a couple of hours. Previously it would spike up to the highest red segment within 5 minutes of starting the organ even with no playing. Before playing yesterday I changed the audio buffer from 512 down to 256 and then the CPU meter only got up to like the 4th green segment. I'm very encouraged by this but will reserve final judgment until a few months of glitch free performance has taken place. I'm being cautious here because the glitching didn't start until the PC had been in service for a few weeks.
Brooke Benfield
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Re: CPU Spikes - I've Tried Everything I Can Think Of

Postby engrssc » Fri Dec 07, 2018 1:03 pm

I guess reading thru this thread a couple times, my take away is I would appreciate someone convince me why I should abandon my perfectly (consistently) operating Hauptwerk system using Win 7 Pro and replace it with a very problematic Win 10 setup esp at this time.. Anybody? :o :roll:

Rgds,
Ed
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Re: CPU Spikes - I've Tried Everything I Can Think Of

Postby organtechnology » Fri Dec 07, 2018 2:04 pm

engrssc wrote:I guess reading thru this thread a couple times, my take away is I would appreciate someone convince me why I should abandon my perfectly (consistently) operating Hauptwerk system using Win 7 Pro and replace it with a very problematic Win 10 setup esp at this time.. Anybody? :o :roll:

Rgds,
Ed


You're good until January 2020 :)

Thomas
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Re: CPU Spikes - I've Tried Everything I Can Think Of

Postby engrssc » Fri Dec 07, 2018 7:24 pm

Good news, eh, Thomas? I kinda knew that. What I don't know is what will happen with Win 10 and/or Hauptwerk between now and then.

Rgds,
Ed
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Re: CPU Spikes - I've Tried Everything I Can Think Of

Postby dw154515 » Sat Dec 08, 2018 12:14 am

Ok, so good news!! (I think)

It appears as though I had THREE issues working against me simultaneously....

- Superfetch
- Insufficient Ram
- One RAM stick gone/going bad

MAKE SURE YOU DISABLE SUPERFETCH! DON'T JUST "STOP" IT!

SO.... I have ordered 32GB of new RAM that should arrive on Monday. Once it installed, I will report back with my definitive findings.

Disabling Superfetch eliminated the CPU spike issue in the Salisbury set. I noticed that it never Spiked.

When I loaded the SP Casavant, it did use alot more RAM than Salisbury but I was able to adjust the loaded ranks so that it still left me with 1.5GB unused. I thought that seemed reasonable. But the issue persisted. I did a Windows memory test, and it reported back a hardware issue.

SO.... thank you all for the help! A day or two ago I was literally moments away from ordering all the components for a new PC build (was going to give the new Ryzen2 processors a go). $800+ saved. Thanks, folks!
Drew A. Worthen
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Re: CPU Spikes - I've Tried Everything I Can Think Of

Postby jbittner » Sat Dec 08, 2018 10:24 am

brooke.benfield wrote: Even though the account I use on the computer has administrator privileges I was not allowed to disable the Run Time Broker or when in PowerShell, allowed to uninstall any apps.

In order to make critical system changes, you not only need to have Administrative privileges, but you need to run the application making the changes as the Administrator. To do this, right click on the application and choose Run As Administrator from the context menu.
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Re: CPU Spikes - I've Tried Everything I Can Think Of

Postby brooke.benfield » Sat Dec 08, 2018 2:21 pm

Thanks jbittner.

I almost know enough to be dangerous with system administration type stuff. :lol:
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Re: CPU Spikes - I've Tried Everything I Can Think Of

Postby csw900 » Thu Dec 13, 2018 12:02 pm

Hi All

The sequence above just shows how important it is to test your memory if you are having problems. A faulty memory can cause no end of weird problems as well as those described above.

Do not blame Windows as a first option. In my experience having used Windows 10 for organs ever since it became available I have never suffered from glitches. In fact I can run at least SIX organs simultaneously on the same system and all work perfectly. I do not disable anything and even have the internet connected without problems.

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Re: CPU Spikes - I've Tried Everything I Can Think Of

Postby jkinkennon » Thu Dec 13, 2018 1:04 pm

I wonder if Microsoft has gotten the word about SuperFetch being so ill mannered. On the Insider Preview releases it has been renamed as SysMain. Just something else to look forward to. New name, same performance issues. There's a new build released roughly each week and with each new release they turn SysMain back on.
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Re: CPU Spikes - I've Tried Everything I Can Think Of

Postby dw154515 » Fri Dec 14, 2018 12:02 am

csw900 wrote:Hi All

The sequence above just shows how important it is to test your memory if you are having problems. A faulty memory can cause no end of weird problems as well as those described above.

Do not blame Windows as a first option. In my experience having used Windows 10 for organs ever since it became available I have never suffered from glitches. In fact I can run at least SIX organs simultaneously on the same system and all work perfectly. I do not disable anything and even have the internet connected without problems.

csw900


I would mostly agree with this. Still, though, Superfetch was equally to blame. I disabled it on the large pro computer, and the CPU meter in Hauptwerk calmed down dramatically. I never heard the drop outs on that machine, but the constantly-bouncing meter was troubling. Turned off Superfetch, and BOOM. Solid as a rock.
Drew A. Worthen
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Director of Music - Greenwood UMC
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Re: CPU Spikes - I've Tried Everything I Can Think Of

Postby organplayer » Fri Dec 14, 2018 4:03 am

Hi csw900,

In fact I can run at least SIX organs simultaneously on the same system and all work perfectly.


How you are doing this? I would like to load i.e. 3 small organs at once (depending on the RAM they need) and switch on the fly between these organs. Do you use virtual machines? Which one? Are there no conflicts regarding midi and audio etc.?

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Re: CPU Spikes - I've Tried Everything I Can Think Of

Postby csw900 » Fri Dec 14, 2018 5:03 am

Hi organplayer

Running multiple organs is an interesting subject. I have only 8GB memory but do run an Intel i5 system with HD sound.

First. I never try to run more than one HW organ at a time - HW positively prevent more than one instance, claiming that the sound system cannot cope with more than one. This may be true I have never even tried to run more than one HW organ.

Second. I run mainly Miditzer and my eplayOrgan organs and both of these allow multiple instances and will also run alongside a HW organ. The sound system copes perfectly well with multiple organs - they can all play simultaneously.

Third. A big problem is lack of screen space to see the organs so I rarely run more than two or three at a time. The organs can communicate with each other using real or virtual midi cables. Thus the first organ can play the second and the second can play the third. I am currently experimenting with "Translating" organs where the midi stop and swell signals from one organ are translated to those needed by the next organ and so on.

I do not use "virtual machines" (I assume you mean a virtual operating system running on top of Windows).
This would not work for me because it is not necessary and I need the organs to communicate with each other. There are no conflicts with midi when midi is used correctly. A significant problem with Windows however is not being able to open a midi input port more than once.

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Re: CPU Spikes - I've Tried Everything I Can Think Of

Postby organplayer » Fri Dec 14, 2018 6:31 am

Hi csw900,

thanks for the explanation. My hope was, that you found a way to run more than one instance of Hauptwerk :) . No, I'm not looking for more instances of Hauptwerk and I would not like to play more than one organ at a time (not some kind of "mixed" organs. I think this wouldn't sound so well). But just to "rotate" bewteen previously loaded organs. This can be happen in the same and only instance of Hauptwerk.

Reason: A piece I play sounds well with may be 5 stops only on a specific organ. Another piece sounds much more better with may be only 7 stops on another (!) organ. etc. etc. With 32 GB Ram I have space for a lot of smal sets of stops from different organs.

I know, I know ..., this needs a completely other design of Hauptwerk. But dreams must go on :D

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