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best new motheroard

Buying or building computers for Hauptwerk, recommendations, troubleshooting computer hardware issues.
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JohnNicholson

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best new motheroard

PostSat Oct 19, 2019 5:14 am

I am considering building a new PC for Hauptwerk with full 64 gig RAM spec.
Any suggestions for best motherboard / processor / RAM would be appreciated.
Also, best audio interface for multiple speakers with reverb enhancement.
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jkinkennon

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Re: best new motheroard

PostSat Oct 19, 2019 10:51 am

I built a new PC about a month ago and went for a high end Intel processor though the AMD offerings are certainly tempting as well. I chose the Intel i9-9940X which is 14 cores and at the time was just over $1000 and seemed to be priced a lot better than models with marginally more power. The motherboard is the ASUS ROG STRIX X299-E at just over $300. The entire setup was $3000 for 64GB and a week or two later I added a second 64GB for another $300. The SSD is the Samsung 970 EVO Plus 2TB.

This is more PC than I would normally go for. The Intel i9-9900K is under $500 for example and would be a good choice plus eliminating a separate graphics card. Perhaps closer to a $2000 price point.

No issues at all except for the usual need to shut off the SysMain service. I'm amazed that Microsoft doesn't make that issue a priority.
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JohnNicholson

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Re: best new motheroard

PostSun Oct 20, 2019 9:12 am

Thanks for your reply and advice jkinkennon!
But it seems that your approach is way above my budget!
I currently have a 4 core processor, with 48 Gig of the available 64 gig installed. But for some reason it will not 'see' the remaining memory cards above 48 Gig. Has anyone else had this problem? I have two Hauptwerk consoles a simple two manual and pedal in my 'office' and a four manual console in the living room. At the moment both use the same PC connected by a cable. The main speakers in the living room with basic Cambridge speakers in the office. I raised the question to explore the current cost of a new PC system for the 4 manual console. I guess it would need a new Hauptwerk unless I carry the dongle from one to the other.
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larason2

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Re: best new motheroard

PostSun Oct 20, 2019 2:33 pm

It seems to me odd that the system doesn’t “see” the remaining 16 GB of ram. It suggests to me that the RAM isn’t inserted properly, is at the wrong bus speed, or there is some problem with it. I suppose it’s possible the motherboard may not support RAM beyond a certain amount, but I think that’s unlikely because RAM limits usually go up in multiples of 2. If your motherboard only supported a maximum amount less than 64, it would probably be 32GB. If you aren’t sure, that is something you can check with the motherboard manufacturer. If you wanted to get a new motherboard, you should get one that exactly matches all of the components you plan to put in it, especially if you plan to recycle the processor, RAM, and other computer components. I suspect the RAM is the weakest link, because I have had troubles similar to yours, and it turned out to be the RAM, and because the computer seems to be recognizing the other RAM you have inserted appropriately.
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larason2

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Re: best new motheroard

PostSun Oct 20, 2019 2:37 pm

An easy way to check if it’s the RAM is to take out all of your 16 GB RAM chips, and insert each one one at a time and see if your computer recognizes them. If they are all recognized, your problem is elsewhere. If one of the chips just won’t be recognized, the problem is that RAM chip.
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JohnNicholson

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Re: best new motheroard

PostSun Oct 20, 2019 3:08 pm

Actually my motherboard has eight 8 gig RAM memory cards. I have done as you suggest for some hours, but
the max I can get the board to 'see' is 48 gig. This does suit me fine for the moment, but my plan is to build the largest tonal specification that is possible with a full 64 gig. I see Goerlitz sample set exceeds 64 gig and it is an organ I love the sound of, but I did not understand how it is possible to address over 64 gig of RAM. When I started with computers it was the BBC.
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larason2

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Re: best new motheroard

PostMon Oct 21, 2019 2:33 pm

I see what you mean. If you’re sure the RAM is OK, then I would contact the motherboard manufacturer. Maybe they will be able to recommend another motherboard that would work with your specific RAM configuration and CPU. I seem to recall that sometimes how the RAM is configured on the board makes a difference, i.e. if you use 16 GB Modules then you might be able to get up to 64 MB, whereas 8 GB modules you can’t. It all depends on how the board is wired. I would confirm with the manufacturer what would work before buying though.
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mdyde

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Re: best new motheroard

PostSun Dec 01, 2019 6:27 am

[Topic moved here.]
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.

[Please use email or the Contact page if you need to contact us privately, rather than private forum messages.]
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Johannes Sørensen

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Re: best new motheroard

PostThu Dec 05, 2019 3:25 pm

Hi John Nicholson

“. . . processor, with 48 Gig of the available 64 gig installed. But for some reason it will not 'see' the remaining memory cards above 48 Gig. Has anyone else had this problem?”


From your information I suppose, that the motherboard has a LGA 2011 or LGA 2011 v3 socket.

I have had the same problem, 8 ram blocks of 8 GB each, but Windows could only see 48 GB. All the memory modules were tested to be okay, and to move them around didn’t change anything.

A LGA socked can be very sensitive, and the slightest the contact pins on the motherboard are bent there is no connection to the contact points of the processor.
Searching the net I found out, that the issue is well known. Furthermore that the connections form the processors memory controller to the ram modules are placed in the corners of the socket.
After a couple of attempts and maybe a bit of luck, with use of a magnifying glass, the sharp point of a scalpel, patience and a great deal of care it succeeded not to total damage the motherboard but to lift the pins of the socket and get use of all 64 GB of ram.

I hope my experience can help you too.

Best regards
Johannes
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JohnNicholson

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Re: best new motheroard

PostThu Dec 05, 2019 3:32 pm

WOW!
Yes, what you describe is exactly what I experienced! I tested every possible combination of the 8 8gig boards and the best I could get is 48gig. Happily this is a lot better than the 32 GIG i had before, but I stopped any more investment of my time lest I blow my own brains out. But your advice will be followed when I have a rainy day with nothing better to do. But long term I will probably build a whole new system when I have got closer to completing the 4M console for the living room. Currently I use a 2M+P basic test bed in the office.
Thanks for sharing your experience!
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Johannes Sørensen

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Re: best new motheroard

PostSat Dec 07, 2019 3:24 pm

Hi again.

You wrote:
“I see Goerlitz sample set exceeds 64 gig and it is an organ I love the sound of, but I did not understand how it is possible to address over 64 gig of RAM.”

I have the Goerlitz sample set, and to install it on the computer with 64 GB memory, I have followed Jiri Zureks recommendation:
“RAM consumption: 6-channel surround, the front-direct ranks loaded with truncated releases (simulated dry, long decay 250ms). The front-diffuse and the rear ranks loaded with normal full releases. This is the recommended option for computers with 64 GB of RAM or less. …
• 20-bit: 57 GB (recommended)”

But I have truncated the front-direct ranks as less as possible to 2s.

A 4 core processor, as you have in the present computer, is in the lower end for so huge an organ.
However when the motherboard is fixed, and all 64 GB memory is available, possibly the computer can be upgraded with a much more powerful processor.
High clocked multi core Xeon processors intended for workstations are more powerful than ordinary desktop CPUs. From new they cost a small fortune, but later it is often possible to buy one second hand on eBay for a little fraction and thus obtain a really strong computer for a reasonable price much much cheaper than building a new one with similar power.

An example to make it concrete. My five year old computer has a x79 motherboard and DDR3 ram. The first CPU was a 6 core 12 thread Intel i7- 3930K. A couple of years ago it was replaced with a 10 core 20 thread 25 MB L3 cache Xeon E5-2690 v2. The performance was increased more than I had expected. In Hauptwerk the static polyphony was almost doubled to 26.000 buffer size 512 and 28.500 buffer size 1024, which is enough for fast playing and heavy registrations in even the greatest sample sets, I think.

You wrote:
“Also, best audio interface for multiple speakers … “

Martin Dyde write:
“We use, and particularly recommend, RME’s (http://www.rme-audio.de/en_index.php) audio interfaces, since we’ve found their hardware, drivers, compatibility, support, quality and reliability all to be extremely good. However, there are plenty of other excellent manufacturers of audio pro/semi-pro interfaces.”

For around ten years I have had an audio interface from RME 8 channels + 2 (a stereo) for headphones. It has worked excellent without any issue. RME have updated the drivers regularly. If I should have a new audio interface, I would first look for one from RME – new or second hand.

I don’t know if some of this can be to any help.

Best regards
Johannes

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