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Swap in a new processor?

Buying or building computers for Hauptwerk, recommendations, troubleshooting computer hardware issues.

Swap in a new processor?

Postby 1961TC4ME » Tue Aug 29, 2017 12:11 pm

Hi all,

I don't even know if this can be done or if it's worth messing with, but I'll ask the experts here for an opinion as I really don't know the answer or if I'd be wasting time and money. My computer is getting up there in age but overall still works very well for Hauptwerk and the sets I have, so I'm happy with it. It has the original Intel i-5 2500K processor, 4 memory slots, 32 GB of memory currently. In lieu of going out and spending a substantial amount of money on a new computer, I get these emails from Micro Center and I'm tempted to try it. >>
http://www.microcenter.com/search/searc ... c2e6719f30 They're offering i-7 7700K 4.2 GHz for $299.

I'd assume if I can put in the new processor the main advantage I'd likely see is an improvement in polyphony? Any other things that may be advantageous to doing this? Any other things to consider, issues, etc.?

Or, will it even work?

Thanks,

Marc
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Re: Swap in a new processor?

Postby jkinkennon » Tue Aug 29, 2017 12:39 pm

I'm showing an 1151 socket for the i-7 7700 versus the 1155 that the current i-5 uses. There are inexpensive motherboards but the form factor would have to match. Possibly a motherboard bundle would be cost effective if the form factors matched. Seems like this is similar to my experiences where I end up starting a build from scratch and using the former computer for a linux desktop or server.

I'm not up to date on all the PC component possibilities so perhaps someone has a better way forward.
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Re: Swap in a new processor?

Postby 1961TC4ME » Tue Aug 29, 2017 1:01 pm

According to the advertisement both the i5 and i7 they are offering use the 1151 socket, but again I don't know this stuff from a hole in the ground, much less the form factor issue. Maybe the older i5-2500K uses a different socket? You'd think they'd be the same. I also thought of going the new motherboard route as I like the case I have, BUT one issue there as well. I have a 1010LT sound card AND they don't offer the slot on the motherboard for them on the newer motherboards far as I know.

Marc
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Re: Swap in a new processor?

Postby magnaton » Tue Aug 29, 2017 2:03 pm

A couple of weeks ago, I happened into a Micro Center in St. Louis to investigate an upgrade. Like Marc, I too have an i5 with 32GB RAM that I purchased late in 2015. Not to hijack his thread here, but I was a little taken back with what I was shown as the i7 upgrade path. When talking to the tech guys there, it seems the A/C power cord is the only thing I have that can be transplanted from my current system! :shock:

The new MOTBs require the faster DDR4 memory, no longer have on-board native video, and the latest Intel processors don't come with a processor cooling fan and require Windows 10 to function properly. They basically weren't tested/certified with Win7.

I did a little online research and found some NOS boards on Egghead like the Asus x99 series that is just barely a generation 'behind' that will accept an i7, expand to 64GB of RAM, Win-7 approved, and would allow my other components to transplant in. So MOTB, RAM, and i7 Processor would be my only pieces to buy.

Comments?

Danny B.
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Re: Swap in a new processor?

Postby 1961TC4ME » Tue Aug 29, 2017 2:42 pm

magnaton wrote:A couple of weeks ago, I happened into a Micro Center in St. Louis to investigate an upgrade. Like Marc, I too have an i5 with 32GB RAM that I purchased late in 2015. Not to hijack his thread here, but I was a little taken back with what I was shown as the i7 upgrade path. When talking to the tech guys there, it seems the A/C power cord is the only thing I have that can be transplanted from my current system! :shock:

The new MOTBs require the faster DDR4 memory, no longer have on-board native video, and the latest Intel processors don't come with a processor cooling fan and require Windows 10 to function properly. They basically weren't tested/certified with Win7.

I did a little online research and found some NOS boards on Egghead like the Asus x99 series that is just barely a generation 'behind' that will accept an i7, expand to 64GB of RAM, Win-7 approved, and would allow my other components to transplant in. So MOTB, RAM, and i7 Processor would be my only pieces to buy.

Comments?

Danny B.


No worries about the 'high-jack' as this is the kind of info I'm looking for, other's experience and what they ran in to is good to know. I was doing some reading over the lunch hour online and pretty amazing but even 5 years down the road from its release the i5-2500K is still regarded as a pretty good processor, especially in gaming circles. In some aspects they say it holds its own or is better than it's so called replacements currently being offered. I read it over-clocks incredibly well (if that's what you're in to) and doesn't burn up in the process compared to some newer ones, and holds it's own unless really tasked with an intense video game where fps (frames per second) is important.

I seem to be entering the 'red zone' and will start to get some audio break up with a full registration right around 4000 (give or take) polyphony which is a bit short for some of the larger multi-channel sets, but that's with all 6 channels loaded on the SP Dingelstaedt as an example, so I'm assuming if I only loaded 4 channels the polyphony performance might improve.

I'm basically looking to up the performance some so here's another question: Is it worth attempting to overclock it or am I wasting my time?

Marc
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Re: Swap in a new processor?

Postby ArnoldOrgans » Tue Aug 29, 2017 2:56 pm

I would recommend saving your funds for a new computer build in the future. $300 goes a long way on a complete upgrade. If you have 4 memory slots and are currently using 32gb ram ( I assume 4x8gb), my thought on the next upgrade would be 8 slots for 64-128gb of ram. If you go the DIY route at Microcenter, a new 64gb i7 computer could be built for $850. This would include some open box items.
Last edited by ArnoldOrgans on Tue Aug 29, 2017 8:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Swap in a new processor?

Postby scottherbert » Tue Aug 29, 2017 7:32 pm

About a year or so ago I saved up and watched sales, eventually finding all the parts (mostly from Newegg and Ebay) and had a local guy rebuild my original Hauptwerk computer. I went with an I-5 processor and a motherboard that could go up to 32 gigs of ram, but only installed 16 to begin with. Total cost, including new hard drive, Windows 8.1, and installation; $585.00.

If everything else works, save it and upgrade the parts that need to be upgraded. It makes sense, and saves some coin! :wink:

~S
"Life is just a dream, it is in death that we truly awaken!"
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Re: Swap in a new processor?

Postby RichardW » Wed Aug 30, 2017 3:09 pm

magnaton wrote:When talking to the tech guys there, it seems the A/C power cord is the only thing I have that can be transplanted from my current system! :shock:
:)
Partly because of the above and partly because it costs more to perform incremental upgrades, I now have a policy of just building a new machine when I need some more capability. My old HW machine then becomes my general purpose machine and my old general purpose machine is, ideally, sold off but more likely given away or scrapped.

Consequently, my i5 (2500 no "K") with 32GB will remain in operation until I need more RAM for a new sample set - unless it fails in some way, of course.

The main issue I saw was that because technology advances so quickly, by the time you are ready for an upgrade everything else has been superseded as well. For instance, RAM is now often DDR4 and not DDR3. RAM speeds can be faster so there you will only benefit from a faster CPU if you upgrade that as well. New mother boards frequently have sockets for the faster SSD disks. Old mother boards may not work properly with the latest operating systems.

So I just make a system then run it until i have to upgrade for some real reason. Then I spend days finding a set of compatible components that are cheap. I usually pick a CPU that sounds promising from here: https://www.cpubenchmark.net. (Then when I discover that I have picked an unusual and outdated server CPU, I revise my decision!) Then to find compatible mother boards I look here (I presume the US has some similar sites): https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/ Once you have a mother board you can start looking for compatible memory.

That usually has to be iterated to find the cheapest, reasonable speed, solution. If you always want fastest then expect to pay inflated prices. My first rule is to get at least twice as much memory as previously and a processor that is at least twice as fast.

I hope this helps,
Richard
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Re: Swap in a new processor?

Postby 1961TC4ME » Wed Aug 30, 2017 4:44 pm

All good advice here. Since the current i5 setup works fine yet I will probably just leave it alone vs. creating potential trouble for myself. Matt made a good point which is, $300 goes a long ways towards a new computer, and yes you can build a good one for around $850 give or take. One thing I've liked about dealing with Micro Center is they usually have some pretty knowledgeable computer folks at the parts and pieces counter who are very into gaming and know their way around what to get and what not to, and certainly helped me make the proper decision last time around on whether I should buy off the shelf or build one. We did an across the board comparison of build vs. buying a plug and play unit and came within about $50 between the two choices at the time. The differences were primarily power supplies, fan options, etc. The guy I worked with ended up recommending an off the shelf house brand unit that I bought which saved me the build time and a possible screw up or two that I may have made during the build process.

Marc
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Re: Swap in a new processor?

Postby MrNhanduc » Thu Aug 31, 2017 4:50 am

If you don't mind, I want to add some info, since it's not complete right now and might confuse others.

i5-2500(K) uses DDR3 and socket 1155.
i7-7700(K) uses DDR4 and socket 1151.

X99 motherboard = socket 2011-3, only i7-5820K and higher or i7-6800 and higher will fit. All motherboards with an X are the high end platform from intel. THe i5-2500 and i7-7700 are mainstream platforms on Z, H or B motherboards.

Concluding: upgrading from i5-2500 to i7-7700 costs you also a new motherboard and memory, so more expensive than just the processor.

It is better to wait a little bit i guess, since Intel will refresh mainstream within a few months, and then the i7-8700(K) and even i5-8600(K) will have 6 cores! That's appealing, though 64 GB RAM is still the max for mainstream. If you want 64GB+ RAM, you go for X99+6800K (or higher) or the newest X299+7800X (or higher). The X platform can accept 128 GB RAM.

Also AMD now offers some interesting options too. For long time AMD processors were far behind, but now they are back and offer some incredible offerings, like a Ryzen 5 1600 processor (6 cores and 12 threads!) for € 200 (don't now dollar prices) which can be combined with sub-100 dollar motherboards. HArdware market for Hauptwerk is very interesting these days.

Also mind that most stores will indeed be focused on gaming but Hauptwerk computers require partly different things than a gaming computer.
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