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A Huge Intel Security Hole Could Slow Down Your PC Soon

Buying or building computers for Hauptwerk, recommendations, troubleshooting computer hardware issues.

Re: A Huge Intel Security Hole Could Slow Down Your PC Soon

Postby mdyde » Sun Jan 21, 2018 9:42 am

Hello Iain/Ed,

To clarify my previous reply, I meant that I haven't found any significant performance loss (loading/unloading times, polyphony, resilience to audio glitches) with the latest OS Meltdown/Spectre patches on macOS, but I do see a significantly longer loading and unloading times now on Windows 10, and that I don't know whether there are any significant performance implications specifically in Microsoft's Windows 7 Meltdown/Spectre patches.
Best regards,
Martin.

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Re: A Huge Intel Security Hole Could Slow Down Your PC Soon

Postby 1961TC4ME » Mon Jan 22, 2018 12:14 pm

mdyde wrote:Hello Marc,

Windows updates (or any other software updates) could never be received from Hauptwerk software updates, or sample sets, themselves.


Hello Martin, thanks for the reassurance. I kind of figured it would be a long shot that a patch could come through a download, but in this day and age it wouldn't surprise me. I did check my Hauptwerk computer this morning and the last update was in 2012, so whatever my computer did the other day after Hauptwerk closed I don't know, but all is running as normal.

I use a Win 7 computer at work that is always connected to the internet and receives updates. I checked and so far the patch mentioned is not present in recent updates and there have been no performance issues at all. So maybe it's safe to assume it does not affect Win 7?

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Re: A Huge Intel Security Hole Could Slow Down Your PC Soon

Postby mdyde » Mon Jan 22, 2018 12:43 pm

Hello Marc,

1961TC4ME wrote:I use a Win 7 computer at work that is always connected to the internet and receives updates. I checked and so far the patch mentioned is not present in recent updates and there have been no performance issues at all. So maybe it's safe to assume it does not affect Win 7?


(Build 1709 is a Windows 10 feature update, so that isn't relevant to Windows 7.) The Meltdown/Spectre patch has a different Microsoft KB number for Windows 7, which I understand is KB4056897 ( https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/4056897/windows-7-update-kb4056897 ). The Meltdown/Spectre security issues are certainly relevant to all operating systems and versions (but I don't know first-hand what performance impact they might have on Hauptwerk in the case of Windows 7).
Best regards,
Martin.

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Re: A Huge Intel Security Hole Could Slow Down Your PC Soon

Postby 1961TC4ME » Mon Jan 22, 2018 1:06 pm

Hello Martin, thanks again.

Interesting.... I just looked through all my work computer's updates, there were several updates that were done on 01-10-18 and again a few on 01-21-18. I have numbers all around and one very close to the one mentioned which is KB4056894, but KB4056897 is not present.

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Re: A Huge Intel Security Hole Could Slow Down Your PC Soon

Postby mdyde » Mon Jan 22, 2018 1:24 pm

Hello Marc,

Probably you have virus scanner software on that computer that hasn't yet set the registry key that's needed before that Windows update will install.
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Re: A Huge Intel Security Hole Could Slow Down Your PC Soon

Postby mdyde » Tue Jan 23, 2018 10:05 am

I see that Intel have just announced that people should stop applying the Meltdown/Spectre operating system updates, since they've found that they might cause system instability with many different CPUs:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-42788169
https://www.theverge.com/2018/1/22/16919426/intel-advises-pause-deployment-of-spectre-patch

I don't know whether it's related, but my Windows 10 installation (which had those latest patches) suddenly corrupted itself so catastrophically last night that I couldn't boot it at all, not even into safe mode, or to recover the system. I have had to wipe it, and am in the process of reinstalling Windows 10 completely from clean (which will take some considerable time, give that development computers need a lot of large software installed).
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Martin.

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Re: A Huge Intel Security Hole Could Slow Down Your PC Soon

Postby engrssc » Tue Jan 23, 2018 2:25 pm

WOW, that's a bummer. In my case, I have a computer that I use to try things such as updates, but my main computer doesn't get updated for a long time sometimes not at all.

Rgds,
Ed
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Re: A Huge Intel Security Hole Could Slow Down Your PC Soon

Postby jkinkennon » Tue Jan 23, 2018 5:51 pm

No such issues with my i7-5820K but it sounds like a problem if you are running the wrong chip. I guess we aren't even sure which ones work reasonably well and which won't.

I do have the slow memory loads and unloads which I had reported to Microsoft ages ago, but no issues in terms of system stability. Running build 17074.rs_prerelease_flt.180116-1539, whatever all that means.
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Re: A Huge Intel Security Hole Could Slow Down Your PC Soon

Postby engrssc » Fri Jan 26, 2018 5:29 am

mdyde wrote:I have had to wipe it, and am in the process of reinstalling Windows 10 completely from clean (which will take some considerable time, give that development computers need a lot of large software installed).


Recovered? Any further issues?

Rgds,
Ed
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Re: A Huge Intel Security Hole Could Slow Down Your PC Soon

Postby mdyde » Fri Jan 26, 2018 5:36 am

Hello Ed,

Windows 10 itself is reinstalled (with all current updates, since I need to test with them) and no stability problems have arisen again yet (although performance is as before). (I'm still working on getting all of the development software reinstalled.)
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Re: A Huge Intel Security Hole Could Slow Down Your PC Soon

Postby mdyde » Sat Feb 10, 2018 6:25 am

An update on this (10th January 2018):

Microsoft have been working with us to investigate the performance losses when loading/unloading organs (allocating/freeing memory) that have arisen since the Windows 10 Fall Creators Update (build 1709), and especially since the Meltdown/Spectre Windows 10 patch KB4056892.

They're identified the parts of the Windows kernel responsible for the issue and have identified some optimisations that they say should bring performance very nearly back to pre-Fall Creators Update levels. Currently their tentative expectation is that those changes will be released in a Windows 10 update towards the end of April. They're also working on a broader project to investigate performance degradations since the Fall Creators Update in general.

In the meantime their recommendation, in order to avoid the performance issues, is not to upgrade to the Windows 10 Fall Creators Update (build 1709). (However, I do also appreciate that in many cases it's impossible to avoid doing that, particularly for people that are using the Home Edition of Windows 10, in which installation of Windows 'feature updates' can't be delayed.)
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Martin.

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Re: Problems after installing Win10 Fall Creators Update

Postby engrssc » Sat Feb 10, 2018 9:42 am

Hi Martin,

Assume now known issues being responsible for your Win 10 crash a short time ago. However, we don't seem to have heard of many (if any) other Hauptwerk computers experiencing this issue. Or haven't I kept current on this? Just curious.

Rgds,
Ed
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Re: A Huge Intel Security Hole Could Slow Down Your PC Soon

Postby mdyde » Sat Feb 10, 2018 10:01 am

Hello Ed,

The whole area of the Meltdown/Spectre patches is very messy and confusing. They were found to cause instability on some CPU models/architectures (supposedly mine included), and were withdrawn, and are gradually being reworked and reissued:

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/microsoft-disables-spectre-v2-patch,36416.html
http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/intel-fixed-spectre-patch-skylake,news-57864.html

My new (clean) Windows 10 installation (with the Meltdown/Spectre patches) still blue-screens and reboots sometimes, but I don't know for certain whether it's due to the Meltdown/Spectre patches, or to a hardware component or recent (since January) driver update somewhere misbehaving erratically.
Best regards,
Martin.

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Re: A Huge Intel Security Hole Could Slow Down Your PC Soon

Postby TheOrganDoc » Sat Feb 10, 2018 3:28 pm

Hi Ed,
My PC Has not been updated in about 7 years, I only utilize it with Hauptwerk, and yes it is an XP Pro, I am afraid to update it, as it is very obsolete now, but my Wurly. Console is now 90 years old, and with care it plays beautifully ! :roll:


engrssc wrote:WOW, that's a bummer. In my case, I have a computer that I use to try things such as updates, but my main computer doesn't get updated for a long time sometimes not at all.

Rgds,
Ed
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Windows Spectre Patches Are Here, But You Might Want to Wait

Postby engrssc » Tue Mar 20, 2018 8:48 pm

FYI:

https://www.howtogeek.com/346465/windows-spectre-patches-are-here-but-you-might-want-to-wait/

Question - how would these patches affect a Hauptwerk setup on Win 10 (with Fall Creators Update)? Too soon to tell? Computer stability is a concern. Would seem computers used for Hauptwerk as well as online activities would be most vulnerable to Spectre concerns along with the microcode patches also.

BTW, I received a BIG notice from M/S regarding my tablet with an older version of Win 10, that no further updates would be available after April 1, 2018 unless I updated to Fall Creators Update. :shock: I did update it, but this tablet is not used for Hauptwerk.

Rgds,
Ed
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