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Running 24/7

Buying or building computers for Hauptwerk, recommendations, troubleshooting computer hardware issues.

Running 24/7

Postby engrssc » Mon Dec 03, 2018 11:03 pm

Went to visit my doctor today at our local hospital. Happened to notice each room/area has a computer, same as what I'm using on one of my HW instruments - HP Compaq Elite 8300 Intel i7 3770 3.4Ghz etc, (desktop).

A sign read - Please do not turn off computer - IT Dept. Got to talk to the head IT guy and inquired. They have literally hundreds of these all running Win 7 Pro. Have been running now for over 7 years, again 24/7. Out of all of these, they had one failure which occurred within the first week for that particular computer. They all can connect with the Internet thru their main server. And being in a medical facility, they are required to be reliable. Goes without saying.

Point being the IT guy attributes the no failure rate is due in part to the computers running 24/7. They have had 3 utility power failures in which power went down for a short time until the emergency generator(s) kicked in. Even these power outages did not cause any failures. I meant to ask if they had to reboot all of the computers manually because the computers are plugged into regular outlets with only a minimal surge protector,no UPS.

Got me to think, why do I shut my HW computer off anyway? Strongly thinking I will follow what the local hospital and clinic does. So as of tonight, the computer won't be shut off. I have an identical spare backup computer that I have switched to be the HW computer in service. (An A unit and a B unit). Running right now with the B computer. I like the idea of almost instant on. I will be shutting the audio system off when finished playing. Audio is ready in 7 seconds, I call that instant on. Will see. Anyone else doing this?

Rgds,
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Re: Running 24/7

Postby Grant_Youngman » Mon Dec 03, 2018 11:31 pm

My Mac Pro has been powered on since 2008 — virtually constantly. The only time I typically power it off is when I'm leaving home for extended periods like vacations, and three years ago when I was moving cross-country and had it in storage for over 6+ months. My Echo Audiofire interfaces have likewise remained powered up — which is good, because the most common failure mode is when the starting capacitor in the switching power supply craps out. Leave them on? They don't have to "start" :-)

Never had a problem with the computer …
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Re: Running 24/7

Postby engrssc » Mon Dec 03, 2018 11:36 pm

Big high five,Grant. :D What I was hoping to hear. Just what the hospital IT guy said. Really makes sense and comes as no surprise. Big important, tho is to make sure everything stays cool. 8) In my case, I've never heard the computer's fans run. And if they did, not a big deal. Better than a computer or other electronic item failure.

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Re: Running 24/7

Postby mnailor » Tue Dec 04, 2018 8:54 am

I never shut down the computer or audio interface when not playing, just the console and amplifiers. It's never caused a problem.
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Re: Running 24/7

Postby MrNhanduc » Tue Dec 04, 2018 10:00 am

The problem (though that might differ per person) is of course that is uses more energy when constantly turned on. When I am home, I shut off my car, when I go to bed, I shut off the lights. All for the same reason. So when I stop playing or doing other things on my computer, I turn it off.
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Re: Running 24/7

Postby organsRgreat » Tue Dec 04, 2018 1:04 pm

But if a computer fails sooner than it needs to, the environmental cost of replacing it might outweigh the extra energy used to keep it running 24/7?
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Re: Running 24/7

Postby organtechnology » Tue Dec 04, 2018 1:59 pm

The case for turning off your computer when you are not using it is; (wait for it)
You can not hack a disconnected computer!

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Re: Running 24/7

Postby engrssc » Tue Dec 04, 2018 2:59 pm

Ain't it great that there are no perfect solutions. 8)
And we have choices. :roll:

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Re: Running 24/7

Postby sonar11 » Tue Dec 04, 2018 9:03 pm

organtechnology wrote:The case for turning off your computer when you are not using it is; (wait for it)
You can not hack a disconnected computer!

Tjg


Not really. By far, the most common "hacks" are automated and scripted; if you have a weak spot in your computer, they will get in whether or not you shutdown your machine at night. The second most common is just plain social attacks; ie, they get some information from facebook (your first car, where you went to school) and run password attacks, or they fish for it by sending you emails and you visiting their malicious site and typing in stuff you shouldn't be typing in, or just plain ole viruses and software that looks legit but isn't.

Bottom line, if you can't leave your computer running 24/7 because you're worried about hacking, then that's like saying I change my oil in my car every 30,000 miles but don't worry I never go above 1000 rpms; eventually it will catch up to you. An insecure computer is an insecure computer, the amount of time it is exposed is a very minor detail.
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Re: Running 24/7

Postby organtechnology » Wed Dec 05, 2018 12:09 am

sonar11 wrote:
organtechnology wrote:The case for turning off your computer when you are not using it is; (wait for it)
You can not hack a disconnected computer!

Tjg


Not really. By far, the most common "hacks" are automated and scripted; if you have a weak spot in your computer, they will get in whether or not you shutdown your machine at night. The second most common is just plain social attacks; ie, they get some information from facebook (your first car, where you went to school) and run password attacks, or they fish for it by sending you emails and you visiting their malicious site and typing in stuff you shouldn't be typing in, or just plain ole viruses and software that looks legit but isn't.

Bottom line, if you can't leave your computer running 24/7 because you're worried about hacking, then that's like saying I change my oil in my car every 30,000 miles but don't worry I never go above 1000 rpms; eventually it will catch up to you. An insecure computer is an insecure computer, the amount of time it is exposed is a very minor detail.


A better example is; I turn my car off and take the key to make it harder to steal. I turn the computer off to keep the hackers from depositing things on my computer while I am away. And I hope I am suspicious enough to spot phish.

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Re: Running 24/7

Postby sonar11 » Wed Dec 05, 2018 9:59 am

organtechnology wrote:
sonar11 wrote:
organtechnology wrote:The case for turning off your computer when you are not using it is; (wait for it)
You can not hack a disconnected computer!

Tjg


You're missing an important part here; and that is that your computer should and can be secure, while it's running. If it's not, you have a problem, and that problem won't go away by simply turning it off.

I administrate several servers as part of my job, they don't get to turn off at night because they run software that needs to be accessed 24/7. If you can make a server secure, you can make your desktop secure. Four of these servers are linux, and I have to admit it's easier for me to protect a linux machine, but we have one windows server left that's been running and receiving updates since about 2010 (running windows server 2008 r2).
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Re: Running 24/7

Postby 1961TC4ME » Wed Dec 05, 2018 11:33 am

I've been doing totally the opposite and also have never had an issue. My Win 7 Pro which was purchased in 2011 from Micro Center and is used exclusively for Hauptwerk gets turned off after each use. So that's 7+ years now, no problems. It seems to me anyways that it probably doesn't much make a diff leaving it running or turning it off after each use, other than you might wear out the power button sooner. :mrgreen:

One reason I do shut mine off is with it constantly being on things will collect dust much quicker. I routinely pull the side off the case and give things a good dusting. You'd be surprised in just a few months how much dust those fan blades and other things inside the case collect dust reducing the efficiency of the fans and flow of cool air to components, which to me can be as damaging as anything. For the car guys here, that's like driving around with a plugged up radiator and sludge in your oil. :wink:

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Re: Running 24/7

Postby jrball » Wed Dec 05, 2018 11:40 am

I have been turning my big rig off every night for power saving.
However, Windows 10 often surprises me at power up the next day.

It often loses USB inputs from the organ - I unplug and plug until the PC sees them.
I'm thinking of removing the USB hub and buying an internal USB card (requires lots of long cables to the console).

Earlier this week my PC lost an internal audio linkup.
Took me a few hours and a rollback of a recent Windows update to restore proper audio operation.
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Re: Running 24/7

Postby 1961TC4ME » Wed Dec 05, 2018 12:13 pm

jrball wrote:
It often loses USB inputs from the organ - I unplug and plug until the PC sees them.
I'm thinking of removing the USB hub and buying an internal USB card (requires lots of long cables to the console).

Earlier this week my PC lost an internal audio linkup.
Took me a few hours and a rollback of a recent Windows update to restore proper audio operation.


Kind of going off track of the original post here, but I had the same issues. At the advice of Martin quite some time back, I picked up a USB hub that I plug the 3 manual in to and this problem has largely went away. I guess PC's do have the problem of swapping or losing track of USB ports and what's connected to them from time to time.

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Re: Running 24/7

Postby amun » Sun Dec 09, 2018 1:14 pm

Point being the IT guy attributes the no failure rate is due in part to the computers running 24/7


How interesting :wink:

My HW-dedicated setup is running on a two/24 basis since 2009 without any failure despite more then 20 hard shut downs.
I am deeply convinced this being due to playing the Brahms lullaby dedicated to my PC before shutting HIM down.
And as a big plus it saves a considerable amount of energy costs compared to the 24/7:
two/7 99 kwh =33,51 $/ year vs 24/7 1183 kwh 402.08 $/year
( average PC only consumption:0.135 w, cost per kwh: 0.34 US$ (in my country)

Conclusion: IMHO the observation of the above IT(?)Manager also can be interpreted in this way:
- the man is superstitious and
- his machines are of outstanding quality.

amun :wink:
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