Pre-configured PC Computers now available

Alan,

That's a good suggestion. Which ASIO card(s) for 2 channels do you think would be appropriate? I will investigate adding one of them to the OT-1.

Tom

Hi Tom.

It rather depends on whether you just want a 2 channel card and whether your customers will mind having trailing leads.
Echo have a comparison chart at: http://www.echoaudio.com/Products/Produ ... _Chart.php which might be helpful, but my inclination for the low end of the range would be the E-MU 0404 PCI - the spec is at: http://www.emu.com/products/product.asp ... ifications
or the higher quality E-MU 1212M PCI - spec: http://www.emu.com/products/product.asp ... ifications but this may put the cost of the overall PC out of budget.

Thank you all for your suggestions and critiques. Upon further investigation, it turned out that the low end model was maxed out at 4 GB memory. Plus the audio was not true Intel HD as there were not enough jacks for 8 outputs. So I am replacing that unit with the K230 chassis and adding an E-MU 0404 ASIO card which has drivers for Vista 64. The processor is still a Core 2 Duo but it is the E7400. Memory is DDR2 which is more available. The normal price is $1195.00 but the introductory price of $995 remains until further notice.

The 6GB models go to 8GB with the addition of the last 2GB of memory. The only downside is the 8GB is the max. The price differential is due to the addition of a monitor and the Saffire LE multichannel audio plus the additional effort to configure a multi-channel audio system.

Alan, I would still like your recommendation on the ASIO card unless you think the E-MU 0404 is OK.

Thank you all for your input.

Check it all out at http://www.organtechnology.com

Way to go, Tom. We wish you all good success!

Rgds,
Ed

Alan, I would still like your recommendation on the ASIO card unless you think the E-MU 0404 is OK.

Tom.

I'm not sure if you wrote your request before I posted above, or not, so sorry if I'm repeating myself.

The E-MU 0404 PCI works well for many folks and don't forget that it has the added advantage of having a built-in MIDI interface so you can save a little cash there.
The E-MU 1212 and 'M' versions have better DACs but I doubt it's worth the extra expense for an entry machine.
They are reasonably easy to set up, but beware that the default output channel is not #1 as you might expect, ISTR it's #39 !!! There's a setup procedure by Brett Milan somewhere on this forum - an easy search.

This has only happened to one customer but there's one thing you might want to be aware of:
The PC has Vista 64 and had Avast! antivirus software. It's totally free period expired and the guy tried to uninstall it.
After that the E-MU 0404 stopped outputing audio, but gave all the indications that everything was in order. I had to re-install the driver and the Patchmix software to correct it. This happened twice to him but has not repeated since and we still don't know the true cause. I'm not blaming the E-MU device, just making you aware, so you get to keep all of your hair if it happens.

I found the EMU PatchMix program, used for multi-channel audio, and also
in-built reverb effects, was NOT intuitive to use! In fact a absolute brain
twister.

However, a few HW users have posted instructions about using that program,
however good luck to all who decide to give PatchMix a go. I abandoned
EMU and all their products years ago.

I found the EMU PatchMix program, used for multi-channel audio, and also
in-built reverb effects, was NOT intuitive to use! In fact a absolute brain
twister.

However, a few HW users have posted instructions about using that program,
however good luck to all who decide to give PatchMix a go. I abandoned
EMU and all their products years ago.

Fortunately there is a downloadable config file for Patchmix, on the MDA site and I have one or two different ones if anyone's stuck.

I agree that it's not intuitive, but then Tom is going to do all that hard work for folks who can't cope.

Yo all,

My 'state of the Art' computer is now just a dinosaur by today's standards. a paltry Dual Core Duo, on a 32bit MB using a skinny 3GBs. I might be crying in my tea except for the fact that it runs like a dream with the Litomysl wet, and the St. Maximin wet. Hauptwerk indeed has performed miracles in CPU / RAM efficiency. As much as we'd all love to have the latest and fastest computer, MDA has already done the ground work to allow us to enjoy Hauptwerk even with our old 'dinosaurs'

doesn't even have an ASIO sound card - an essential to running Hauptwerk with 'proper' sound quality.

ASIO has nothing to do with sound quality (though it may help avoid incorrect settings which Windows hides by doing unwanted sample-rate changes). On the other hand it has everything to do with latency, which is very important in making a system playable.

Paul

I found the EMU PatchMix program, used for multi-channel audio, and also in-built reverb effects, was NOT intuitive to use! In fact a absolute brain twister.

I must have a twisted brain, as I find PatchMix simple and intuitive to use. On the other hand, I am constantly irritated by the lack of ability of any other soundcard (that I can afford) to provide comparable facilities.

Paul

I too found it understandable from a mixer/recorder soundman's perspective but I had to read it several times before the light came on. I am not sure how you would use it or if it is necessary to use it to get Hauptwerk™ sound out of the card. I guess I will find out soon enough.

This so reminds of when an equally large computer company which had a huge computer contract with the company I worked for. Under the flag of this respectability they offered employees a special deal for the "ideal" home computer- a "deal" even publicly endorsed by my employers ( or rather their woefully ignorant IT managers) . Needless to say it was a complete dog. I find it quite amazing that a company should pretend to know about and sell a "ideal" Hauptwerk computer when they hadn't even looked at at ASIO. Couldn't possibly have read the freely available documentation
Core duo is a "school" computer these days and barely makes entry level and not something that should receive any endorsement as a Hauptwerk PC- in a year or so's time they'll probably be quite dififcult to find... i.e obsolescent. My old Dual Core Xeon is now an object of derision for my grandchildren.

. As Alan says Hauptwerks reputation can only suffer and for a few dollars more and a short surf round the market, you can have something which works properly. "Turnkey" for my money is right spec ( minimum Quad core + 8Gb RAM, perhaps a budget ASIO card e.g M-Audio 2496 /1010LT and two hours set-up and that can't equal $1799 or computer prices in the US have overtaken UK prices by a considerable margin

Here's1 minutes surfing... should be able to do better !

http://cgi.ebay.com/Audiophile-2496-Aud ... .m20.l1116

M-Audio 2496 - $97.99

http://cgi.ebay.com/AMD-X4-QUAD-CORE-PH ... 286.c0.m14

Quad core 8GB Ram $529

Windows Vista 64

http://cgi.ebay.com/Windows-Vista-Home- ... 286.c0.m14
$130

Total Hauptwerk PC= $756

OT2 = $1799 Why ?

This forum operates in the interests of its aware and savvy consumers and I hope they'll continue to be fair & intelligently critical about sample sets and in this case plainly ill-thought out and overpriced computer specs,

IMHO of course

Peter

This so reminds of when an equally large computer company which had a huge computer contract with the company I worked for. Under the flag of this respectability they offered employees a special deal for the "ideal" home computer- a "deal" even publicly endorsed by my employers ( or rather their woefully ignorant IT managers) . Needless to say it was a complete dog. I find it quite amazing that a company should pretend to know about and sell a "ideal" Hauptwerk computer when they hadn't even looked at at ASIO. Couldn't possibly have read the freely available documentation
Core duo is a "school" computer these days and barely makes entry level and not something that should receive any endorsement as a Hauptwerk PC- in a year or so's time they'll probably be quite dififcult to find... i.e obsolescent. My old Dual Core Xeon is now an object of derision for my grandchildren.

. As Alan says Hauptwerks reputation can only suffer and for a few dollars more and a short surf round the market, you can have something which works properly. "Turnkey" for my money is right spec ( minimum Quad core + 8Gb RAM, perhaps a budget ASIO card e.g M-Audio 2496 /1010LT and two hours set-up and that can't equal $1195 or computer prices in the US have overtaken UK prices by a considerable margin or did profit rear its ugly head ?

This forum operates in the interests of its aware and savvy consumers and I hope they'll continue to be fair & intelligently critical about sample sets and in this case plainly ill-thought out computer specs,

IMHO of course

Peter

Peter,
I regret to inform you that the Organtechnology computers and the configuration service that comes with them are available only in the USA. Thank you for reminding me to put that on my web page so that those Hauptwerkians out side of the USA will understand better. If you live in the UK and need computer assembly assistance, I think Alan is into that sort of thing over there.

As for the Hauptwerk VPO, Hauptwerk runs just fine in dual core machines with 4 GB of memory (see the comments above by B.Milan) and the free version and free sample sets are certain to work well in that environment. The HD audio that is on the MB is 2 channels of 44.1 Khz 24 bit audio and sounds great on a home stereo. It is also all the audio channels that the Free and Basic Versions have available. But, if you read the OT-1 specs you will find that we added an ASIO board (still stereo however) to make the base computer ASIO compatible at the suggestion of this forum. Constructive fact-based criticism is always appreciated and seriously considered.

In the OT-1 model, we are seeking as customers the musician who wants to play and not 'fool around' with building a bleeding edge state-of-the-art computer but simply wants to plug-and-play the Basic or Free version of Hauptwerk from their MIDI console. The firewire muti-channel Saffire LE audio and 4 GB of memory, two touch screen monitors and a Matrox dual-monitor video card can be added later and will run most of the sample sets out there when the owner decides to upgrade Hauptwerk.

Thanks for listening,

Tom

Peter,

After I got over the knee-jerk reaction to your comments and studied them a bit more carefully I came to see your point about Why? does an OT-2 cost so much. In the process, I discovered that your analysis over looks some signifigant costs and in some cases does not allocate sufficient cost to provide the desired performance.

The Lenovo K230 uses an Intel processor which is better than an AMD processor per Martin and Brett. Plus we add 2GB of memory to the tower to bring it to 8GB. Retail value about $40.00. The warranty for the Lenovo includes labor which may include a trip to your house by their service people to repair the tower. The InHome warranty on the Lenovo K230 can be extended to 2 years for $99.00 or 3 years for $159.00.

The OT-2 uses the Focusrite Saffire LE firewire audio to give 8 channels of output. Cost on the web as NEW $299.99 US not 97.99 US for 2 channel echo card. This requires adding a Firewire card to the tower Retail value $29.99 at Fry's

The OT-2 comes with a monitor - retail value is around $150 US. We also add a video card with dual monitor outputs to the system which allows the addition of TWO additional monitors (purchased seperately) to have a THREE monitor system using the OT-2. Video card value about $80.00 US at Fry's.

If you buy on the internet, you must pay freight (estimate $1/lb for ground freight) and possibly State Sales Tax of 7-10% on the total. Estimate UPS ground cost of about $60 on inbound freight.

The time and labor to provide a custom configuration for each customer far exceeds the 2 hrs. you allocated. The console MIDI output must be studied and an SMF MIDI file built to simulate the output of the console. Then the HW 3.23 must be configured to respond to the MIDI signals which come from the customers console. THe multi-channel audio must then be configured to the customer's audio system to place the sounds where the customer wants them to go. Just collecting the information via phone and email can consume several hours. Then once the system is shipped, we will spend more time on the telephone with the customer helping guide the actual install and starting of the computer and programs and a bit of assistance in getting up to speed. All of this for a person who is not truly familiar with computers or software such as Hauptwerk. We estimate a minimum of 8 man-hours to accomplish this. Computer techs make $30.00-60.00 per hour US. Which equates to $240- $480 per computer for configuration labor alone.

So let us summarise.

Computer $529.00
Memory stick 30.00
Audio 8-ch 299.00
Monitor 22" wide 150.00
Firewire card 30.00
Matrox dual monitor video 80.00
freight in-coming 60.00
sales tax Texas 98.00
Total $1276.00 US

The difference between the asking price and this number includes the configuration labor, after the sale support costs, overhead costs, federal, state and local taxes on being a business and if there is anything remaining after that it goes to the owners of the business and is sometimes called 'profit' or 'return on investment'. It is not ugly.

Tom

Tom

I haven't any particular gripe with an entry level PC being Dual core. The combination of improved performance of the software and better dual core speeds would probably (just) give an acceptable performance, though notwithstanding your detailed account of the realities of computer retail, I think they're rather expensive - at least by UK standards. There is obviously a balnce between attracting new entrants to HW (budget price) and dissapointing them with a computer that can't grow with their HW ambitions.

I really think if you were to offer an intermediate level PC you must think about Quad Core. It's polyphony that's issue, not simply whether an organ will load in the available RAM. You can load quite a large organ if you make some compromises, 16 Bit, Mono, Single loops etc but that doesn't get over the fact that a core Duo isn't really going to handle the crucial aspect of Hauptwerk( insufficent processing power for the number of pipes playing)

Perhaps the best comparison is the High End Gaming Computer which makes similar demands as a good HW set-up ( except he video of course) Nobody in the world is selling serious Core Duo Gaming computers.
Additionally if you're in the computer business, you must accept that today's hot rod is tomorrows.... well I'm sure you've a suitable name in the trade. You have to try and future proof your PC as much as possible... we all thought quad core would be the final answer, but already Caen users are struggling with polyphony in surround. Software demands and PC performance have ever been a chicken and egg relationship and Hauptwerk is no different. Yesterday's statistics about computer use in the community are no basis for a business plan.

Additional comments: A proper touch screen rather than an overlay device would be the way to go rather than a 22 inch- I think a good purpose built 17/19 inch touch screen would be a better option and as you know the price has dropped considerably in the last year or so.

If you're aiming your market at the good musician ( but technically challenged), he'll soon be dissapointed with an intermediate Core duo machine. That won't do either Hauptwerk's reputation or your sales any good.

I wish you well with your project, if properly done ( Right price and good Kit) it will certainly prosper - But you have a very educated and communicative market here and they will sure voice their opinions in these pages if the product underperforms or is too expensive,

Best Regards

Peter

Peter,

Thank you for the thoughtful comments regarding polyphony. I tested the polyphony on the entry level machine using the polyphony checking organ and the instructions contained therein and using a 61 key controller and 125 pipes per key setting there is no breakup with as high as 20 notes held down. I believe that equates to a polyphony of about 2500. The technical publication from Hauptwerk says that '2400 pipes of polyphony will play the biggest organs with the longest release times.' That's pretty good for an Intel Dual Core running at 2.5 GHz and 4GB of memory. Remember the free edition is 256 pipes of polyphony and the Basic is 1024 pipes of polyphony. But I am sure there are some sample sets out there that wont play with only 2500 pipes polyphony but it looks as though the ones that load in 4GB will perform well with 2500 polyphony. I just noticed that the HW 3.23 manual has dropped the discussion of polyphony from the manual when talking about processors perhaps the increased speed from 1 GHz to 2.5 GHz has been benficial.

On the subject of Quad core is better, I do concede that a Quad core machines are superior. I also think that HW 3.23 has the benefit of some optimization coding that makes the most of any processor above the minimum. The result is a wonderfully done piece of software that really works well.

But in any event, I am looking at increasing the OT-4 processor to the Intel Quad core Q8200 and as soon as the 4GB sticks become a little bit less adding 8GB to make the OT-4 have 16GB.