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B2031a Bass Attenuation

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Glenn English

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B2031a Bass Attenuation

PostSun Nov 21, 2021 12:51 pm

I'm building a small multichannel system in our little church and earlier in the week took delivery of 4-No. pairs of Behringer B2031a. I currently have them set up on the floor in the choir, just to verify that everything is working before getting a scaffold put up, probably this Tuesday, to place them on a high shelf, about 6m above the floor in the main body of the church.
As they sit now, on the floor, the sound is greatly improved by applying 4dB of room correction bass reduction (via the little switch on the back of the speaker) to keep the boominess in check. My dilemma then is to decide whether to leave this attenuation applied, or return to default settings when placing the speakers in their intended final destination (bear in mind that they will be very difficult to access subsequently and I don't anticipate being near them again for a very long time...).
If I return the switches to the default settings, can I be confident that the same end result can be achieved by using HW's voicing controls alone ? How are everyone else's speakers set ?

Incidentally, this is the first time I've heard a multi-channel setup and I'm really inspired and excited as to what will be possible - with just this very raw setup as it is now, I can already hear (and feel) the organ starting to breathe, in a way that I didn't previously (using just a stereo pair of 3031a's). I'm running Caen (dry), currently in 4x stereo pairs, but I'll probably have a lash a a full mono setup and see how that sounds. Also keen to see what I can do with Billerbeck semi-dry.... in experiments thus far, this organ's native acoustic seems to 'couple' with our own building's acoustic, creating a rather unpleasant bloom (even when the reverb tails are fully trimmed), but maybe careful voicing will be able to overcome this. Has anyone tried this sampleset in a church installation ?

All comments welcome !

Glenn.
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mdyde

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Re: B2031a Bass Attenuation

PostSun Nov 21, 2021 1:23 pm

Hello Glenn,

Glenn English wrote:If I return the switches to the default settings, can I be confident that the same end result can be achieved by using HW's voicing controls alone ?


Not necessarily, I'm afraid -- the filter frequency/phase responses of Hauptwerk's voicing EQ might well be different to whatever filters your active speakers include, especially if the speakers' filters responses have complex shapes.
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.
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Glenn English

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Re: B2031a Bass Attenuation

PostSun Nov 21, 2021 2:44 pm

Hi Martin,

Many thanks for your input - in light of this I'll choose very carefully ! (although I'd imagine that running 8 or 10 channels of EQ in reaper or similar wouldn't be overly cpu intensive, given that we're running a dry sampleset in the first place - please correct me if I'm wrong here)

Thanks Again,

Glenn.
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mdyde

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Re: B2031a Bass Attenuation

PostSun Nov 21, 2021 3:13 pm

Thanks, Glenn. You're welcome.

Glenn English wrote:(although I'd imagine that running 8 or 10 channels of EQ in reaper or similar wouldn't be overly cpu intensive, given that we're running a dry sampleset in the first place - please correct me if I'm wrong here)


I too would not expect 8-10 EQ instance to be particularly CPU-intensive (unless perhaps they're complex analogue-modelled EQs or sampled impulse-response EQs, or similar). However, routing audio via a VST/AU host (such as Reaper) does generally have significantly more CPU overheads than not doing so in general.
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.
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mnailor

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Re: B2031a Bass Attenuation

PostSun Nov 21, 2021 5:34 pm

Before going the software EQ route, you might check if your audio interface has EQ built in. All of the ones I've owned do.
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Glenn English

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Re: B2031a Bass Attenuation

PostMon Nov 22, 2021 10:21 am

Unfortunately I think you're mistaking me for someone with real money to spend :lol:

My interface is a Behringer UMC 1820, which I think is pretty good value for what it is, but it certainly doesn't have any 'bonus' features... (or at least not that I'm aware of).

Thanks for the thought anyway !

Glenn.
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larason2

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Re: B2031a Bass Attenuation

PostMon Nov 22, 2021 10:42 am

I don't think you will find the bass changes as much as the treble when you mount it up high. On the ground, there's some reflection off the floor, but bass is a lot less directional than treble, so I don't think moving it will have that much of an effect. What I would do is set the speakers for how they sound good on the ground, mount them high, then compensate with per pipe voicing. What you could also do is set the speakers with no bass attenuation, then mount them high, then compensate with per pipe voicing, but you may potentially be in for a lot more work! My experience is that boomy bass can be very note specific, so individual voicing is the best way around it anyway. This is assuming using Hauptwerk advanced.
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jkinkennon

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Re: B2031a Bass Attenuation

PostTue Nov 23, 2021 10:41 am

I have six similar Behringer monitors (ribbon tweeters) and use them for three stereo pairs. The best thing I did for the bass was to move the pedal division ranks to a separate pair of channels with genuinely full range speakers plus a sub. The Behringer monitors were cleaner, they really sang once relieved of the pedal tones which are a challenge for any studio monitor.

That said the EQ work is essential. With many sample sets the bass is not even to begin with. Just watch your audio interface meters on the bottom octave of the 16' stops especially. It's easy to see the typical increase in volume toward the bottom notes. I level that octave with the left "Quick" slider for Octave 00. Then it is possible to proceed to individual problem notes. It's as if the sample set producer used studio monitors only and EQ'd that bottom octave by ear.

Boomy bass is more often due to the overall pedal division being too loud or to the 8' stops needing a slight reduction in volume.
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Glenn English

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Re: B2031a Bass Attenuation

PostWed Nov 24, 2021 12:27 pm

Thanks everyone for your input - I put them up with 2dB of bass reduction applied and tried them before dropping the scaffold. The result (using the Caen dry set) is reasonably balanced and not a bad starting point, so I'm going to run with it as is and commence the long process of voicing.

The Billerbeck semi-dry on the other hand, sounds pretty woeful, so if it's ever going to be a successful part of our installation, a lot of voicing will be required.

Ours is a 'broad' church.... so you may interested to know that the Paramount 450 also sounds pretty good... (does anyone else here use a theatre organ in church ? ... or have have I just signed my own excommunication papers. ? :D )

Thanks,

Glenn.

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