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Convolution Reverb Tutorial

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Kronenberg II

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Re: Convolution Reverb Tutorial

PostSat Apr 14, 2012 3:12 pm

Thanks for that Bill. To be quite honest, I have wasted so much of today trying to sort this that I am having one of my 'dump Hauptwerk' moments. Roll on the Hauptwerk 4 version with reverb on board, I say.

Richard.
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Organorak

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Re: Convolution Reverb Tutorial

PostSat Apr 14, 2012 3:42 pm

I'm curious. I run a mixture of surround and wet samples and am looking for a way to add surround to the rear channels for the wet samples that don't have a surround version (e.g. Salisbury). I assume that whether I go for hardware or software, I would need to disable the reverb when playing the surround sets.

Am I correct in thinking that I would take a mixdown, or just even duplicate 1+2 the front channels as 3+4, and send the rear channels through the reverb system if I want to add a couple of rear channels to a wet sample? Or would I need to do anything to the front channels too?

That said, I'm on the lookout for a cheap, simple and temporary fix until Hauptwerk 4.1 includes reverb (I assume that would enable wet samples to have rear channels added?) or until the surround version of Salisbury comes out. So I don't want to spend a huge amount of time or money on the perfect system. The options that come to my mind are

1. software reverb with something like Reaper
2. hardware reverb with an Alesis unit or other bought cheaply on Ebay.

Am I on the right track? And has anyone tried another option that occured to me, since I have an M-audio Delta 1010LT soundcard which came with Ableton Live Lite software and the LT1010 seems a favourite soundcard of Hauptwerkians. I haven't explored it yet, but could that give me reverb on a couple of rear channels without incurring any additional cost and without too much setup headache?

Thoughts welcome!
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cvmoreau

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Re: Convolution Reverb Tutorial

PostSat Apr 14, 2012 4:00 pm

Richard, I'm using 64 bit Windows 7, but when I tried to use the 64 bit plugin it failed, so I tried the 32 bit. It seems to be working, just fine.

By the way, I realize that this is the exact opposite of what Bill suggested. I'm just saying that this is what worked for me.

Again, good luck!
-Chris
Last edited by cvmoreau on Sat Apr 14, 2012 4:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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mdyde

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Re: Convolution Reverb Tutorial

PostSat Apr 14, 2012 4:07 pm

Hello Organorak,

until Hauptwerk 4.1 includes reverb (I assume that would enable wet samples to have rear channels added?)


We can't say at this stage exactly how v4.1's features will be designed - sorry.
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.
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elpaharo

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Re: Convolution Reverb Tutorial

PostSat Apr 14, 2012 10:37 pm

cvmoreau wrote:Richard, I'm using 64 bit Windows 7, but when I tried to use the 64 bit plugin it failed, so I tried the 32 bit. It seems to be working, just fine.

By the way, I realize that this is the exact opposite of what Bill suggested. I'm just saying that this is what worked for me.

Again, good luck!
-Chris



Chris

Just to help clear up a bit of misunderstanding, Cantabile Lite has two versions. A 32 bit version and a 64 bit version. If you selected the 32 bit version then you would want to load the 32 bit Hauptwerk VST Link.

Or, if you elected to load 64 bit Cantabile Lite version then you would want to use the Huaptwerk VST Link 64 bit version.

Go to this page and you will see all the version available, both FREE and not FREE: http://www.cantabilesoftware.com/download/

Bill :roll:
Last edited by elpaharo on Sun Apr 15, 2012 3:13 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Convolution Reverb Tutorial

PostSun Apr 15, 2012 6:53 am

elpaharo wrote:Just to help clear up a bit of misunderstanding, Cantabile Lite has two versions. A 32 bit version and a 64 bit version. If you selected the 32 bit version then you would want to load the 32 bit Hauptwerk VST Link.

Or, if you elected to load 64 bit Cantabile Lite version then you would want to use the Huaptwerk VST Link 64 bit version.


Bill,

Reverberate LE is a 32-bit plugin. So, I think most users will have best success using the Cantabile Lite 32 bit and Hauptwerk VST 32-bit, even when running on 64-bit versions of Windows. 64-bit VST works only when every part of the VST chain is 64-bit, including the audio driver. From Cantabile's download page:

"x64 builds require a 64-bit operating, a 64-bit audio driver and 64-bit plugins."

Stephen
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elpaharo

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Re: Convolution Reverb Tutorial

PostSun Apr 15, 2012 8:43 am

sschaub wrote:Bill,

Reverberate LE is a 32-bit plugin. So, I think most users will have best success using the Cantabile Lite 32 bit and Hauptwerk VST 32-bit, even when running on 64-bit versions of Windows. 64-bit VST works only when every part of the VST chain is 64-bit, including the audio driver. From Cantabile's download page:

"x64 builds require a 64-bit operating, a 64-bit audio driver and 64-bit plugins."

Stephen



Stephen

Thank you for the clairification. Like most things there is an exception to the rule:

x64 Editions

The 64-bit version requires a 64-bit operating system (eg: Vista x64) and compatible x64 plugins.
By default Cantabile x64 will not load standard x86 (32-bit) plugins, though this can be done with jBridge – see http://www.cantabilesoftware.com/jbridge .
The term x64 should not be confused with 64-bit audio which is a different sound format and supported by both x86 and x64 versions of Cantabile. If you’re not sure about any of the above, use the x86 version.

I only mention this because Richard commented that he expierenced a message about jBridge while experimenting with Cantabile.

One of the main advantage of a 64 bit system, which includes Hauptwerk and Cantabile, is the increased memory capability.

Once again, thank you for the excellent tutorial. :D

Bill :mrgreen:
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Re: Convolution Reverb Tutorial

PostSun Apr 15, 2012 11:58 pm

Bill, I do now understand, and I apolgize if I came across as saying that you were mistaken, that was NOT what I meant. Since it worked first time out for me (after I used the 32 bit) I didn't bother to try to figure out what was what -- I was just thrilled to finally have reverb after having gone around and around with Reaper!

Your explanation makes perfect sense, and I thank you.

-Chris
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Re: Convolution Reverb Tutorial

PostMon Apr 16, 2012 9:43 pm

Just a word of THANKS...I've been trying for a very long time to get Reaper and other programs to work with my set up and nothing ....... but after following your visual presentation and recommended programs, I have a very successful reverb working....beautiful sounds....again, many thanks...
Jack
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Re: Convolution Reverb Tutorial

PostTue Apr 17, 2012 7:45 am

katnjack wrote:Just a word of THANKS...I've been trying for a very long time to get Reaper and other programs to work with my set up and nothing ....... but after following your visual presentation and recommended programs, I have a very successful reverb working....beautiful sounds....again, many thanks...
Jack


Thanks for sharing your success, Jack. And thanks to all who have taken the time to reply with your feedback. It's great to hear that others are enjoying reverb with this approach.

Stephen
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Re: Convolution Reverb Tutorial

PostWed Apr 25, 2012 4:44 pm

I've tried everything in the tutorial, up to the point where I've loaded the HW and REverberate plugins, I've set my speakers to the appropriate channels (actually I've tried both main and rear) in both HW and Cantabile and I've changed my HW audio output to the HW VST link setting. No error messages, but no sound either coming to the soundcard. So far as I can tell, I'm using the 32 bit version as advised (and running Wind 7 64 bit).

What I'm utlimately trying to do is to send the aux mixdown into Reverberate and out of my rear channels (to add reverb to Salisbury). Is this not possible? Or where have I gone wrong? (I'm a bit nervous about tweaking too many settings under General/Audio since from time to time I've made the "wrong" selection and got one of the dreaded HW error messages, or worse, caused my sample set to reload, stopping me from doing any further playing for the next hour or so!)
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Re: Convolution Reverb Tutorial

PostThu Apr 26, 2012 7:38 am

Organorak wrote:I've tried everything in the tutorial, up to the point where I've loaded the HW and REverberate plugins, I've set my speakers to the appropriate channels (actually I've tried both main and rear) in both HW and Cantabile and I've changed my HW audio output to the HW VST link setting.


It sounds like you're trying to use the tutorial on a multi-channel configuration. The tutorial is designed for a simple stereo configuration. I wish I could help, but I don't have experience with multi-channel configurations.

Stephen
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elpaharo

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Re: Convolution Reverb Tutorial

PostThu Apr 26, 2012 12:54 pm

Organorak wrote: ......................

What I'm utlimately trying to do is to send the aux mixdown into Reverberate and out of my rear channels (to add reverb to Salisbury). Is this not possible? Or where have I gone wrong? (I'm a bit nervous about tweaking too many settings under General/Audio since from time to time I've made the "wrong" selection and got one of the dreaded HW error messages, or worse, caused my sample set to reload, stopping me from doing any further playing for the next hour or so!)


Organorak, setting up Cantabile for multichannel involves understanding the Master Bus which is accessed through the SETUP tab. Once you define your audio device via AUDIO ENGINE OPTIONS you then tell Cantabile which channels you want to use via the CONFIGURE MASTER BUS. On that menu you describe your audio system in terms of FRONT LEFT, FRONT RIGHT, REAR LEFT, REAR RIGHT, etc..

With that info defined, you go to the RACK that has Reverberate loaded and select the Inputs and Outputs (Tools drop down menu/Audio channels) that Cantabile will use to move the audio from Hauptwerk (from the AU/VST Link) to the desired speaker(s) through Reverberate.

If you can not figure this out I would be more than willing to set up a time that you can call me on the Tele and I will walk you through it. Note, I am located in Southern Texas (UTC +6 hours).

Bill :mrgreen:
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Re: Convolution Reverb Tutorial

PostFri Apr 27, 2012 6:16 am

Could some kind soul please tell me if and where I am going wrong?

Under General settings/Audio outputs, I have three "items" (left screen), Main output (ie my front stereo speakers), Mixdown and Rear (stereo speakers).

Under Main (right screen) both Main and Rear output device is my ASIO M-audio soundcard; channels 1&2 for Main output and channels 3&4 for rear speakers. Mixdown output device I have set to VST link.

Under Routing and aux mix (advanced settings) in the right screen, output type for Main output and Rear is both "Primary output (destination for pipe routing)" and audio output group is Main output and Rear surround respectively. The only option available to me under any of the four Aux send destinations is <none>

Under Routing and aux mix for the Mixdown, the output type is Primary output (again).

This is the only configuration that doesn't seem to result in an error message (typically 2324).

What I am trying to do is to configure Hauptwerk so that for sample sets that have a rear surround, the rear surround goes directly to channels 3 and 4, and for sample sets that don't have a rear surround, the VST sends a mixdown of channels 1 and 2 to Cantabile, which would then apply some reverb and send it out through channels 3 and 4. However, it doesn't look like anything is coming through the VST link into Cantabile, suggesting that I haven't correctly set up my Mixdown - but I can't figure out any other way of configuring the audio outputs that doesn't result in an error message.

I'd be really grateful for advice on how to configure the Mixdown so that it takes the Main output signal and sends it down the VST link (if indeed that is possible). I'm reluctant to do too much experimenting since each time I play with the settings, when I reload Salisbury the sample set insists on recaching and that then takes around an hour to reload, so this is not something I can just keep clicking on and try different settings.

Thanks, Organorak
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mdyde

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Re: Convolution Reverb Tutorial

PostFri Apr 27, 2012 7:57 am

Hello Organorak,

The text of message 2324 is:

"Each audio output group must have at least one audio output in it, so that you can hear pipe ranks routed to it. Please use the 'General settings | Audio outputs | Routing and aux mix' screen tab to put audio output(s) into your empty ... group, or delete the empty group using the 'General settings | Audio output groups' screen. You will need to make sure that each output group has at least one output before you can load or use an instrument."

I think you're perhaps misunderstanding how mix-downs and groups work: you route ranks directly (only) to 'primary'-type audio outputs (via groups) and those audio outputs can then mix their output down (only) to 'aux mix-down'-type audio outputs. Hence the reason that you aren't seeing your aux mix-down in the list of available mix-down outputs is that you currently have it defined as a primary, rather than aux mix-down, output.

You shouldn't have separate groups for aux mix-downs, since you can't route ranks *directly* to them, and thus they can't themselves be members of groups directly.

Also, typically you can't have a given audio interface being used by two applications at the same time (Hauptwerk and your VST host). Hence if you want to use your VST host with your audio interface for at least one output, then the output device needs to be set to 'Hauptwerk VST Link' for *all* of your outputs.

Finally, it's important to appreciate that you can't currently (Hauptwerk v4.0) have different speaker configurations for different sample sets (unless you use different configurations/desktop short-cuts), so some ingenuity would be needed to achieve what you're trying to do by using aux mix-downs creatively.

This is one way you could do what you want to do:

1. Unload the organ if you currently have one loaded.

2. Go to the Audio Output Groups screen and make sure that you have three, and only three, entries:

- 'Rear (for surround sets)' and
- 'Front (for surround sets)' and
- 'Front (for non-surround sets)'.

Delete any additional groups you might have (as above, aux mix-downs don't belong in groups; you can't route pipes to them directly).

3. OK the screen, ignoring any warnings you might get (2324).

4. Now go to Audio Outputs screen and configure the entries as follows (delete any others you might have).

- Alias='Rear (for surround sets)'. Type=primary. Group='Rear (for surround sets)'. Device='Hauptwerk VST Link'. Channels=3/4. Aux destinations=none.
- Alias='Rear (for non-surround sets)'. Type=aux mix-down. Device='Hauptwerk VST Link'. Channels=5/6.
- Alias='Front'. Type=aux mix-down. Device='Hauptwerk VST Link'. Channels=1/2.
- Alias='Front (for surround sets)'. Type=primary. Group='Front (for surround sets)'. Device='Hauptwerk VST Link'. Channels=none. Aux send 1 destination='Front'. Aux send 2 destination=none.
- Alias='Front (for non-surround sets)'. Type=primary. Group='Front (for non-surround sets)'. Device='Hauptwerk VST Link'. Channels=none. Aux send 1 destination='Front'. Aux send 2 destination='Rear (for non-surround sets)'.
[Edited to correct.]

5. OK the screen. You shouldn't get any errors (2324) now, because your audio outputs and groups should be valid/consistent.

6. In your VST host application make sure you have your audio interface's ASIO driver selected for output and that the Hauptwerk VST Link channels are configured to output to ASIO channels as follows:

- Hauptwerk VST Link channels 1/2 -> ASIO channels 1/2. No reverb/effects. (Hauptwerk VST Link channels 1/2 will be the 'front' signal.)
- Hauptwerk VST Link channels 3/4 -> ASIO channels 3/4. No reverb/effects. (Hauptwerk VST Link channels 3/4 will be the 'rear' signal for surround sets.)
- Hauptwerk VST Link channels 5/6 -> ASIO channels 3/4. Add your favourite reverb/convolution plug-in. (Hauptwerk VST Link channels 5/6 will be the pseudo-'rear' signal for non-surround sets.)

6. Load a sample set using 'Organ | Load organ, adjusting rank audio/memory options/routing. Configure each of its ranks to use the appropriate group that you defined in step 2.

7. Check it's now working as you wanted, and repeat step 6 for each of your other sample sets if so.

I'm reluctant to do too much experimenting since each time I play with the settings, when I reload Salisbury the sample set insists on recaching and that then takes around an hour to reload, so this is not something I can just keep clicking on and try different settings.


You could experiment using a small sample set, or with only a few ranks loaded, so that it wouldn't take long to check the results each time.

Hope that helps.
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.
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