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Multi Channel Audio

Speakers, amplifiers, headphones, multi-channel audio, reverb units, mixers, wiring, ...
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MPiercey

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Multi Channel Audio

PostFri Apr 27, 2012 4:25 pm

Hi Everyone, I am just finishing up my audio system after spending a couple years looking for items that I would be satisfied with. While I can’t guarantee that audiophiles will agree with me, I am extremely happy with the sound quality and what I have accomplished, and as it seems somewhat unique (I have not seen anything similar on the forum) I thought I would share what I have done.

GENERAL
Several years ago I was fortunate enough to be able to purchase a 1 year old, 4 manual Johannus organ, along with their upgraded speaker system. While this is more than adequate for my needs, over time as HW and the quality of the sample sets increased, I became less and less happy with the quality of the sound of the Johannus, so I decided to create my own ‘upgrade’ with HW. While I still use the Johannus console and some of the speakers, all the sound now comes from HW. (As an aside, Sonus paradisi has just released the Utrecht - Dom, Bätz Organ, and I have no doubt that this is the same instrument that Johannus used for the majority of their samples – just listen to the demos on the Johannus site, and compare them with the SP demos. There is a difference in quality, but not the sound). Other components of my system include a custom built PC and 3 MOTU 24 IO’s



AMPS
I knew from the start that I wanted to have a large audio system –not loud, but many channels, so I started my search looking for the amps. I looked at a large range of amps – from extremely expensive stereo amps, to DIY amps and everything in between – class A, B, D, T – everything!. I eventually settled on some 8 channel amps from a company called Audiodigit in Italy. The website for these amps is http://www.autocostruire.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=42&products_id=311, with the caveat that this is for their 4 channel amps. Unfortunately I could no longer find their 8 channel amps on their website. Now I can just imagine some people cringing and saying ‘class T’!!!, and rightfully so if one looks at the specs for the main chip at full power. These amps are considered 100 watts per channel, and with my idea of 78 plus channels – it would be enough to blow the house away – a total of 7800 watts. This would be just over 9 times the power of the organ amps at the 2000 member church I play at!! As I mentioned, at the 100 watts of power per channel, the specs of the main chip are atrocious – the noise and distortion are ridiculous, but on closer inspection, when these amps are run at the low end of the power (say 10-15 watts per channel), things are very different, and are comparable with the specs of most amps on the market. 10 watts per channel times 78 channels equals 780 watts total. Much more reasonable for a home!! There is one other item to note about these amps – they do not include any power supply! However, I was intrigued enough with them to buy 1 of the amps to try it out. It arrived nicely packaged all the way from Italy. Also of note was the price of these amps – if I remember correctly they were about $30 US per channel or about $240 per amp.

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Very reasonable. After my testing (below), I was happy enough with the amps that I bought an additional 8 amps - for a total of 9 amps and 72 channels. One other thing to note; as these are class T amps, they are VERY efficient, and require no fan for cooling – just a small heat-sink, so no additional noise.

POWER SUPPLY
The next step was to find a power supply to test the 1st amp with, as well as being feasible to run all 78 channels down the road. Again, after quite a bit of time looking around and asking questions on other forums, I came away with the feeling that there was nothing on the market. I believe just about everyone I spoke to recommend a linear power supply, and NOT a switching one. Yes, switching is smaller and cheaper…, but they would create significant noise!!! Well, after not being able to find anything, and really wanting to test out my new amp, I eventually went to RadioShack and bought one of their $34 amps – Switching!! Imagine my surprise when I hooked everything up and there was NO switching noise. I called up a friend who is a signal engineer at Intel that works on designing some of their chips, and told him I had no switching noise. He could not accept that, so he came over with all his equipment, and sure enough, there is no switching noise. To say I was a ‘happy camper’ with this is an understatement. I’m guessing that at least part of the reason for this is the design of class T amps, but that is just a guess. To make a long story short, this $34 power supply now powers all 9 of my amps! The only down-side to this system is that the fan in the power supply is very loud, so at some point I am going to replace it, but other than that, it works beautifully! Here is a link to the power supply’s manual: http://www.radioshack.com/graphics/uc/rsk/Support/ProductManuals/2200510_PM_EN.pdf


SPEAKERS
Like most of my other components, I spent a fair amount of time looking for the speakers to use with my system, but because of large number of them that I wanted, they needed to be on the smaller size, or at least not take up much room; however, they had to have at least an 8” woofer as part of the design to accommodate the lower frequencies. In order to conserve on space, I decided to build a ‘fake wall’ and install all my speakers in it.

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I looked at getting the speakers from places like Parts Express, but then I would have to do all the work of making sure that the woofer and tweeter were compatible, and I would have to get or build crossovers etc. So, I decided to look into some in-wall speakers – everything is all ready matched, crossovers built in etc. I must have bought about 20 different pairs – both 2 and 3 way. I put them into the fake wall to compare them against each other, and after listening to all of them with some ‘audiophile’ friends as well as family, we were all (surprisingly) unanimous with our choice.

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The 2-way in-wall speakers from Monoprice were by far the best. These speakers had a beautiful, spacious sound that just made the organs ‘sing’. The web-site for these speakers is http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=108&cp_id=10837&cs_id=1083703&p_id=4101&seq=1&format=2.

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While these speakers make up the vast majority of my speakers, I have also re-used 4 of the speakers (10”, 3-way) that came with the Johannus organ for the 16’ & 32’ stops. I have also re-used the 16” sub that came with the Johannus.

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I have also replaced the picture above the organ with another 'bank' of speakers - same as on either side of the console, so the entire wall is now just speakers. If anyone would like more or detailed photos of this project please let me know and I'll try and get some.

I have am using all 4 of the HW configuration options 1) Mono/VSTi, 2) Stereo/Vsti, 3) Mono & 4) Stereo. Configs 1 & 2 are for the dry/semi-dry instruments (using reverb via bidule & reverberate), and in these cases, I use all 32 channels - the max that VSTi currently handles. The last 2 configs are for wet sample-sets and use all the channels! Because of the large number of channels I have, I've got to admit that I prefer the Mono configs - the sound is just sooooo much more alive!!

This installation is in my home in the greater Sacramento, CA area, however, I do a fair amount of running around, so if anyone would like to stop by and listen to and play the organ please PM me to make sure I am in the area first. All are welcome, and I would love to hear other people’s thoughts after playing it.

Regards,
Melville Piercey
Last edited by MPiercey on Sat Mar 03, 2018 12:22 am, edited 3 times in total.
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sonar11

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Re: Multi Channel Audio

PostFri Apr 27, 2012 7:37 pm

Very interesting...! I don't have the bankroll that some on this site seem to have :P so I have to settle for a much more humble approach, but I also just solved my own speaker problem; might post that in a bit.

Love the picture of the Johannus. I have a 2 manual sweelinck (about 10 years old) and always loved their baroque sound / intonation (before I "met" HW that is), but also the looks of the Johannus (compared to say Rogers or Allen, which seem to be bigger / bulkier cabinetry)... and though I had to settle for el-cheapo toggle stops, I did get the inverted-colored keys :D
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Romanos

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Re: Multi Channel Audio

PostMon Mar 28, 2016 3:07 pm

Just discovered this post. How awesome. I'd love to do something like this.
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ChangedForever

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Re: Multi Channel Audio

PostWed Mar 30, 2016 6:54 pm

Whoah!! LOVE that speaker setup!!!
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cvmoreau

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Re: Multi Channel Audio

PostMon Jun 20, 2016 7:03 pm

Wow, very impressive, indeed (and I admit to a touch of envy). I, for one, would very much enjoy seeing more photos; especially since you say that the entire wall is now speakers.

Congratulations on a job very, very well done!

-Chris
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mdyde

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Re: Multi Channel Audio

PostTue Jun 21, 2016 3:17 am

[Topic moved here.]
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.
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MPiercey

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Re: Multi Channel Audio

PostTue Jun 21, 2016 7:20 pm

Seeing as this old link has been recently brought up again, I thought I would update it with the finished version (at least for this week - seems like I'm always changing things). I have added the main speakers above the organ, so now the entire wall is filled with speakers.

]Image

The very top row of speakers (basically 6 stereo pairs) I use for the solo division, the 12 speakers on the left (again 6 stereo pairs) for the Choir division, the 12 center speakers for the Great, the 12 right speakers for the Swell, the bottom row of speakers on both sides of the console for the higher frequency Pedal stops (8'and above), and the other speakers (2 on each side of the console) that came with the Johannus, I use for the 16' and lower stops. There is also the sub that came with the organ for the real low frequencies. It can just be seen below the rear speakers (see below).

I have also recently been able to put up 12 rear speakers on the wall behind the console.

Image

These I use with surround sample sets, and if there is no surround samples, I then create some using a reverb and a delay (Reverbarate hosted in Plogue's Bidule) to simulate surround.

After using them for several years now, I have to say that I am very happy with them. That is not to say that there have not been issues with a couple of them - such as one of the cones getting blown out by the tibia in the Paramount TO, but at $25 each ($50 per pair), I can't complain.

Currently I'm working on modifying the Johannus console to allow me to use it's crescendo pedal with HW. Unfortionately the Johannus crescendo is hardwired into their system, so I'm having to create a bypass in order to use it.

Regards,
Mel Piercey

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