HW with a 5.1 amplifier?

I'm going deer hunting now so will be out of pocket til Sunday or so, have a good weekend all and wish me luck!

Marc

Hummm...dear Marc...I´d rather wish luck to deers

Ha! They were indeed lucky and avoided us all day. We were met with -10 F this morning and could only take it a few hours at a time. A bit too early for crazy low temps like that!

Would that be or or maybe a combination of both?

That PD und Musik system does indeed look very interesting, I've seen the concept before (and I think perhaps here?) but otherwise don't know anything about it. If I can say anything it does look kind of $expensive$.

Marc

Thanks All; all those posts are very interesting. But I see it's a question of personal taste too. First I used the internal amplification system of my Viscount console. After a while I bought monitoring active speakers and an additional subwoofer but I was very frustrated with the result and sold them back. I prefer a width and warm sound rather than a flat and "natural" sound. When I will replace my actual console with a new one especially for HW, I will have to find an amplification system; that's the reason of my researches.

Hello Luc,

I fully second your approach! My best configuration was to hook Hauptwerk to my analogue multi-channel amplifier and enjoy its warm sound on electrostatic panels (was using it in 2.1 configuration only - cables were too long and RAM too limited to think of surround setup in HW). Completely the opposite of studio monitors (considering the amps and panels specs.) but the most enjoyable sound I could find. The acoustics was corrected by Arc 2, giving a nice and clean bass sound through the subwoofer.

Unfortunately I moved away and had to disconnect the organ from the amplifier - I have now to use earphones only. I must admit I do regret at time this nice and powerful and warm sound I managed to get through my home cinema setup...

Thanks pat17, I'm feeling that I'm not alone...

Hello Patrick

It's a pity that you can't use your nice high end setup.
Are you planning to reconnect in the future or is this impossible in your new living situation.

Regards Jan

Hello Jan

It's a pity that you can't use your nice high end setup.
Are you planning to reconnect in the future or is this impossible in your new living situation.

Yes it's a pity indeed...

Since real estate is pure madness in Dubai it's very possible I have to relocate as soon as next year - lease agreement are concluded for one year only here. If I can find a place with a living room allowing to install the home theater + the organ + the dining table, I would be very, very happy to work through the Martin Logans again...

The only person that came to hear my setup in my previous place was really surprised - he told me the acoustic was similar of a cathedral...

...The only person that came to hear my setup in my previous place was really surprised - he told me the acoustic was similar of a cathedral...

(highlight by Amun)

IMHO we discuss an issue, which is heavily influenced by individual preferences and audio-psychological effects.
The basic decision to make is wether you want acoustics similar to a cathedral or acoustics, which come as near as possible to the sound of the specific organ in its specific environment you have loaded into your setup.

I am convinced that a 5.1 theatre set-up fed with a stereo HW output will produce by its internal processing ( if equipped with it) a phenomenal cathedral impression. But for acoustics which come close to the original organ, I think, a real multi-channel set-up will do better.

Amun

Yes indeed, there are two different and legitimate approaches. On one side the organists trying to simulate the impression of sitting at the console and with all the particular noises of the organ (and even of the church); on the other side the organists preferring to listen the music they play like an auditor in front of his hi fi system. As author of this post, everybody may understand why I don't like monitoring speakers and why I prefer convolution reverbs rather than the acoustic of the church restituted by the personal choices of the technician who made the recording.

However, I discover that a surround amplifier is not the good way. A double amplification system (front and rear) seems to be better for the option I choose.

This has turned out to be a pretty good discussion and one I'm more than happy to jump in to! For me all of this kind of boils down to two things when dealing with any set even remotely involving more than stone dry acoustics (which I don't care for anyways ). First, if we're talking about your own personal set up (not a commercial HW set up in a church, etc.) and you're planning to use speakers and amp(s) no matter the type, it is critical that you at a minimum start with an arrangement of both front and back speakers. Even if it is just 2 speakers in front and 2 in the back that is fine! The second part is, whatever sample set you like, that you either choose to either be happy with the acoustics of the set "as is" or you attempt to modify it's acoustics to try getting what you want. This can be done through a combination of speaker placement, the addition of more speakers placed at strategic points, or you also introduce some type of reverb as well.

For me, I've found the best results come mainly from both speaker placement and balancing the volume level between the speakers front to back. How the set is loaded / ranks routed to produce the most realistic results from the listening position at the console is also a big difference maker.

In an attempt to improve things, I've taken some sets and have attempted to modify the sound (thinking it would be better) by adding reverb, truncating and adding reverb, changing how it is loaded etc., etc., and much to my suprise the results have been less than anticipated, in some cases sets have even gotten to the point of being down right terrible sounding to me.

What I've learned if you want big cathedral acoustics is you're best off purchasing a set that has them in the first place and then leave it's acoustics alone. Concentrate more on getting your speakers placed in the correct position, experiment with a few different loading schemes, and no matter what you go with, balance the volume between the speakers front to back to get the results you are after. Having a multi-channel soundcard and amp connected to multiple speakers or powered monitors will greatly add to your experimenting options and likely get you the results you are after.

Marc

Sorry, my last post some how double posted so I had to delete one. Clean up in asile 4 please!

Marc

What I've learned if you want big cathedral acoustics is you're best off purchasing a set that has them in the first place and then leave it's acoustics alone.Marc

Hello Marc,

In many cases, the organ is recorded too far (Esztergom) or too close (Hereford) or the reverb is too short (PAB) for my personal taste. I am rarely satisfied with the acoustic recorded with the organ. For this reason my diagnostic is different and I prefer to use the wonderful convolution reverb you advised me when you were in the first phase of your experiences.

Cordially.

In many cases, the organ is recorded too far (Esztergom) or too close (Hereford) or the reverb is too short (PAB) for my personal taste. I am rarely satisfied with the acoustic recorded with the organ. For this reason my diagnostic is different and I prefer to use the wonderful convolution reverb you advised me when you were in the first phase of your experiences.

Cordially.

Hello Luc,

There's more to it than just picking out / finding the sample set with supposedly "perfect" acoustics or recording position, I don't think there is such a thing for one main reason. We have to realize we are trying to mimic or better yet, reproduce a large space through speakers that are situated in a much smaller space. As I mention, how the set is loaded can also make a very big difference in the sound as well, and if a person is concentrating more on reverb and not including how the set is loaded into the equation you will likely never quite get what you want and could instead jump from one set to the next looking for that elusive sound. In any case there are going to be compromises as there's no way to fully reproduce all the little details we are going to hear listening to the real thing in person, but we can come up with some very satisfying impressions. When it comes to wet sets, I also think the sample set producer attempts to find the "sweet spot" for best results but there again there will be compromises as any microphone is not going to catch it all perfectly like we hear in person.

I've done some recent experimenting again regarding different ways I've loaded one organ in particular so I can make an accurate comparison and plan to start a post reporting the differences for anyone interested in taking a look. Stay tuned!

Marc

Hello Marc,

I understand your position. Perhaps we have a different attitude because I don't care about the reconstruction of the original organ with its acoustic in my music room. Each organ I have in my collection in completely revoiced following my personal taste. The reverb is only one of the elements customised of my sets and all my organs sound certainly very far away from the reality.

Hello Marc,

I understand your position. Perhaps we have a different attitude because I don't care about the reconstruction of the original organ with its acoustic in my music room. Each organ I have in my collection in completely revoiced following my personal taste. The reverb is only one of the elements customised of my sets and all my organs sound certainly very far away from the reality.

Hello Luc,

And I understand as well, everyone seems to have their own idea on how things should sound or what they are happy with. The only thing is you seem to have tried a number of arrangements and report you've been fairly dissatisfied with most, thus your search continues. Other than experimenting as of late with a few different loading schemes, I've used the same organ and the same audio layout for a rather long time now and have been very pleased with it, my only reason for tinkering is just to see if I can squeeze that last bit of performance out of it. When someone is continually changing equipment (providing the equipment has been good stuff in the first place), but still seems to still not get what they want, that tells me maybe there's more to the story. I hope in your case you can get it sorted out, and what could end up being a large expenditure doesn't end up just being a large disappointment instead.

Marc

Hello Marc,

Don't worry, I'm not unsatisfied but I will soon have the opportunity to replace my old Viscount with a new console exclusively made for HW (without any amplification system of course). Therefore I must buy a new equipment. For this reason, I'm preparing the change in all details.

"PC und Musik's" Speaker Cabinets appear very interesting,
as they produce output from 30 to 20,000 HZ and disperse sound in a 360 degree pattern !
If I am correct, they are about 12" square and about 36" high .

Hmm, these do seem very interesting, but extremely expensive in my opinion. It appears that they are made just for organ use, and specifically mention HW, as well as does the next similar speaker listed a bit below. I would be very hesitant to buy these without a review and positive feedback from a number of buyers. Also for home use they would involve the room much more, so might not be so good a choice. Also it would be nice to be able to read about them in English.

Eric