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11-pair speaker array in two enclosures

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organtechnology

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11-pair speaker array in two enclosures

PostWed May 06, 2015 9:36 pm

I am looking for someone who has tried this speaker arrangement to discuss the results.

I propose to take only two speaker enclosures in which 11 speakers have been installed and feed the 11 speaker pairs with 11 stereo amplifiers. This will give 11 stereo pairs with each stereo pair driven by a stereo amplifier. I assume that each of the 22 speakers are identical and capable of a frequency response of 100-20,000Hz and that there exist sub-woofers capable of 16Hz-200Hz.

Will this work? Anyone tried it?

Thomas
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Re: 11-pair speaker array in two enclosures

PostWed May 06, 2015 11:04 pm

Hi Thomas,

Don't know what you'll get for responses on this one or anyone saying they've got this exact arrangement, but I'll be curious to see what you do get. The only questions I would have here are:

What's the room size?
Dry or wet set?
What are your initial thoughts on how to route?
Any rear channels or just the front ones and sub(s)?
And maybe last but not least... What set?

Marc
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Re: 11-pair speaker array in two enclosures

PostThu May 07, 2015 3:38 am

[Topic moved here.]
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.
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organtechnology

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Re: 11-pair speaker array in two enclosures

PostThu May 07, 2015 12:43 pm

See my notes.

It really comes down to 11 speakers in one enclosure, 2 enclosures, driven by 11 different stereo audio channels which are cycled in stereo pairs by Hauptwerk.

I think a Rodgers M-10 speaker has a bunch of 6x9 speakers mounted in a box perhaps I will find two of these and see what prime number of speakers is available (probably 7)

I was hoping Leo had tried it.

Thomas

1961TC4ME wrote:Hi Thomas,

Don't know what you'll get for responses on this one or anyone saying they've got this exact arrangement, but I'll be curious to see what you do get. The only questions I would have here are:

N/A= does not matter

What's the room size? N/A
Dry or wet set? N/A
What are your initial thoughts on how to route? Cyclic within octave, octaves and ranks cycled
Any rear channels or just the front ones and sub(s)? no rear for this exercise
And maybe last but not least... What set? N/A

Marc
Complete Hauptwerk™ systems using real wood consoles, PC Sound Engines, Dante Audio for Home or Church. info (at) organtechnology.com http://www.organtechnology.com
Authorized Hauptwerk; Milan Digital Audio and Lavender Audio reseller.
USA and Canada shipments only.
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Re: 11-pair speaker array in two enclosures

PostThu May 07, 2015 12:44 pm

mdyde wrote:[Topic moved here.]


Sorry Martin, I tried to get the correct one.
Complete Hauptwerk™ systems using real wood consoles, PC Sound Engines, Dante Audio for Home or Church. info (at) organtechnology.com http://www.organtechnology.com
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Re: 11-pair speaker array in two enclosures

PostThu May 07, 2015 2:38 pm

I've build some speaker systems in my time and have been tempted to try multi-driver designs for the organ. But other than subs, I've always been concerned about the design coming out right so it sounds good. Unfortunately there's more to it than just building some cabinets and plopping drivers in them. If someone with experience would post a design shown to work well, then I might be interested. I think in a church setting one could get away with alot more, than for home use.

Eric
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Re: 11-pair speaker array in two enclosures

PostThu May 07, 2015 3:03 pm

I would think at a minimum the cabinets would have to be divided up inside into individual chambers to house each speaker, BUT with so many claimed "N/A's" it's going to be tough to predict at all what the outcome might be. :|

Marc
Last edited by 1961TC4ME on Thu May 07, 2015 10:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 11-pair speaker array in two enclosures

PostThu May 07, 2015 7:38 pm

organtechnology wrote:I am looking for someone who has tried this speaker arrangement to discuss the results.

I propose to take only two speaker enclosures in which 11 speakers have been installed and feed the 11 speaker pairs with 11 stereo amplifiers. This will give 11 stereo pairs with each stereo pair driven by a stereo amplifier. I assume that each of the 22 speakers are identical and capable of a frequency response of 100-20,000Hz and that there exist sub-woofers capable of 16Hz-200Hz.

Will this work? Anyone tried it?

Thomas


I've had the same idea, but I know nothing about building speaker enclosures. Why not try a test first, say of 3 full-range speakers in each cabinet? In those big multi-speaker boxes Rodgers or Allen used to do, were the individual speakers on separate channels? I didn't think so; but that is what we (HW users) would want, I would think.

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Re: 11-pair speaker array in two enclosures

PostFri May 08, 2015 1:22 pm

A Friend of mine last year put together a 16 channel speaker assembly,
in a 1 1/2 cubic foot area.

He purchased 16, 3" full range speakers,
and made 16, 12" high, (Approx) by about 3 inches square enclosures,
which he bound together in a "Cube", facing up
placed behind the console, and sitting on top of his Sub. :roll:

The organ is a "three manual Classic Organ Works Instrument",
and sounds quite realistic, in the hands of it's AGO member owner's, "Living Room, not Hall" ! :D

It is hard to believe that 16, small Speakers,
mounted on top of small sealed rectangular tubes, "can produce such a Big Sound".

(Does, the term "Sweet Sixteen", sound familiar to anyone here, it sure does to me ) !

Make sure that you "provide Airtight Solid Compartments", for each of your speakers ! :?

Mel
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Re: 11-pair speaker array in two enclosures

PostFri May 08, 2015 1:29 pm

BTW, the friend that Designed the above system, was a Retired, (RCA pro Audio Labs., Engineer) ! :roll:

Mel
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organtechnology

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Re: 11-pair speaker array in two enclosures

PostFri May 08, 2015 5:34 pm

TheOrganDoc wrote:A Friend of mine last year put together a 16 channel speaker assembly,
in a 1 1/2 cubic foot area.

He purchased 16, 3" full range speakers,
and made 16, 12" high, (Approx) by about 3 inches square enclosures,
which he bound together in a "Cube", facing up
placed behind the console, and sitting on top of his Sub. :roll:

The organ is a "three manual Classic Organ Works Instrument",
and sounds quite realistic, in the hands of it's AGO member owner's, "Living Room, not Hall" ! :D

It is hard to believe that 16, small Speakers,
mounted on top of small sealed rectangular tubes, "can produce such a Big Sound".

(Does, the term "Sweet Sixteen", sound familiar to anyone here, it sure does to me ) !

Make sure that you "provide Airtight Solid Compartments", for each of your speakers ! :?

Mel


Hi Mel,

This is exactly the opposite of what I am questioning. I want a prime number of speakers, driven as different audio channels, from one common enclosure. But then I really have my answer already. It may not work but it seems like a new concept :)

Thomas
Complete Hauptwerk™ systems using real wood consoles, PC Sound Engines, Dante Audio for Home or Church. info (at) organtechnology.com http://www.organtechnology.com
Authorized Hauptwerk; Milan Digital Audio and Lavender Audio reseller.
USA and Canada shipments only.
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Re: 11-pair speaker array in two enclosures

PostFri May 08, 2015 6:50 pm

If the speakers share a common plenum, I think you run the risk of extensive intermod, which would completely undo the intended result. The common air space will cause each speaker cone to act as a passive radiator for the frequencies coming out of each other speaker. Air is a non-linear medium- that's how you achieve a resultant from two pedal notes.

The whole idea behind multiple channels assigned cyclically is to avoid intermod.

Ray
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Re: 11-pair speaker array in two enclosures

PostFri May 08, 2015 9:47 pm

rayjcar wrote:If the speakers share a common plenum, I think you run the risk of extensive intermod, which would completely undo the intended result. The common air space will cause each speaker cone to act as a passive radiator for the frequencies coming out of each other speaker. Air is a non-linear medium- that's how you achieve a resultant from two pedal notes.

The whole idea behind multiple channels assigned cyclically is to avoid intermod.

Ray


Exactly, and is why I suggest the first thing before we even go any further is cabinets designed with individual inner enclosures / dividers for each speaker.

Marc
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Re: 11-pair speaker array in two enclosures

PostSat May 09, 2015 3:55 am

rayjcar wrote:Air is a non-linear medium- that's how you achieve a resultant from two pedal notes.


Hello Ray/Marc,

I'd suggest that air is actually a very, very nearly linear medium within the pressure ranges that occur within an organ (which is why room acoustics work, for example -- a linear, time-invariant, system) and that the perceived resultant from two Pedal notes in a real organ is actually due almost entirely to the perceived beat frequency between the two notes, which the brain assumes to be harmonics of a lower fundamental (even though the fundamental isn't there in reality).

An Internet search found this page by Colin Pykett which correctly explains the phenomena of resultant basses and beat frequencies: http://www.pykett.org.uk/resultantbass.htm .

(However, I don't disagree with your other point that you might risk acoustic coupling/interference between speaker drivers in close proximity that share the same small enclosed air space.)
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.
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Re: 11-pair speaker array in two enclosures

PostSat May 09, 2015 10:38 am

rayjcar wrote:If the speakers share a common plenum, I think you run the risk of extensive intermod, which would completely undo the intended result. The common air space will cause each speaker cone to act as a passive radiator for the frequencies coming out of each other speaker. [snip]

The whole idea behind multiple channels assigned cyclically is to avoid intermod.

Ray


Good input. Thanks!
Complete Hauptwerk™ systems using real wood consoles, PC Sound Engines, Dante Audio for Home or Church. info (at) organtechnology.com http://www.organtechnology.com
Authorized Hauptwerk; Milan Digital Audio and Lavender Audio reseller.
USA and Canada shipments only.
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