Any experience with single, full range drivers?

I've been checking out Audio Nirvana full range drivers lately. The idea of no frequency loss because there is no crossover(s) is intriguing, to say the least! They have drivers that come up to 15" and some claim a frequency response from the low 30s to almost 20 kHz. With no crossovers, and no alignment issues with regards to separate drivers, The sound is said to be "perfect", especially for vocal and classical music.

One hitch, you have to build your own speaker enclosures, but that doesn't scare me. Somewhere on here, I remember someone mentioning a build with a series of full range drivers mounted in tubes facing up. I was just wondering who else has used them, and their thoughts?

Cheers.
Scott

I tried a pair of these about 6 years ago, 8" versions I think. I compared them to the Behringer B2031A's I had at the time and definitely preferred the Behringers. The AN drivers had this nasel quality to them and seemed to have alot of comb filtering, (moving ones head back and forth the frequency response fluctuated alot). They also seemed quite directional and didn't have the flat frequency response of the monitors, also seemed like the low end and high end were rolled off more than I expected.

I know of a guy that used these in a church setting though and seemed happy with the outcome.

Eric

An ex-member of this forum, David Pinnegar swears by 8 inch Lowther full range drivers. In the right enclosure they sound awesome, the catch being that the recommended enclosures are complex folded wood creations that cost tens of thousands of pounds (though you can build your own as the plans are available).

I'm not convinced full range are going to get you anything resembling quality sound. The requirements on a speaker to produce treble sounds are not the same (and often conflict) with the requirements for producing bass. I suspect (in addition to what Eric mentioned) that there would also be a lot "beaming", since even 8 inch drivers are susceptible to this when reproducing sounds too high in the treble range.

Another way to look at it; many of us go and buy 8+ channel speaker systems, all in the quest for audio quality; one reason why we go multi channel is to split the workload of an individual speaker, which reduces distortion. Turning around and putting more sound through one speaker seems to contradict what we experience when add more speakers to the mix (clarity, less distortion).

Well,indeed, perhaps I was barking up the wrong tree. All that I know is that my current speakers (Wharfdale diamond towers) were supposed to be superb, but now I can't stand the sound of vocals through them. They just don't sound natural. They also don't sound right for the organ.

Knowing that most of the music "lives" in the midrange, perhaps I should be looking for the best midrange, with a higher crossover for the tweeter, and a sub. Yes, the sub was always in the equation.

I have the skill to build my own speakers, it's just that EVERYONE has a different opinion on what's best!!! I don't have the money for a lot of high-end speakers, so they have to do double duty as my main stereo speakers as well. The reviews claim that ALL of them are the best you've ever heard, but I think I'm smelling swamp land.

I think I'm the one Eric mentioned as using AN drivers in a church. I have 78 of the 10" ones, most of which are in bipolar enclosures, which may help reduce any combing effects. A few are used as the 'tweeter' in the bass cabinets. I've not regretted the choice since the installation in 2010, but I can't say whether they would serve well for a VPO at home.

Take a look at:

http://www.compoundsound.nl/compound-30.html

A perfect speaker for organ music. Many Hauptwerkians use them in combination with their HIFI Setup.

Hey Clinton,

Yup your the one I was referring to. As you say I think the bipolar setup definitely helps.

I for one can't undestand how a voice coil, let alone speaker cone, can product so many frequencies at once. I did some reading up on the full range drivers, and it seemed that the human voice was mentioned frequently that they excell at. I could believe this, but the full range of audio frequencies, I question. Using many of them as in a church, splitting the various ranks up, I'm sure works well though.

Eric

You might consider air motion transformers like the great Heil air motion transformer or something like this one http://www.parts-express.com/dayton-aud ... m--275-094
Because they have a very larg freq. range 800-20000 hz they are almost full range drivers.
I use the great Heil air motion transformers myself and the sound is awesome. Great powerhandling, extremely ,detailed, unbelievable transients and they are also bipolar which is a great advantage for Hauptwerk setups because even at a close range on your console they still sound very spacious and not upfront like other monitors.

Regards Jan

I was inspired by the 'Compound 30' speakers years ago, the cone shaped diffuser over the upward pointing, full range speaker was what I had in mind all along! That eliminates any "beaminess" or sweet spots, creating true omni-directionality, in theory. But I could build my own for SO much less!!!

The Parts Express AMT is nice, but reading it's description, it needs to be crossed over @ 2500 Hz, so it doesn't get as low as 800 without considerable rolloff. They are extremely directional, too. Good try, though.

So I look at the Behringers, and the Mackies, and the Adams, etc, and I'm left thinking, what makes them so special? They are all quality drivers, crossovers, amplifiers and a box! I COULD build my own!

I've been looking at some of Linkwitz Riley designs, now there is some wild designs!

Like I said before, we all have different ideas of perfection. But then, I like rhubarb pancakes!
Scott

I'm tempted to experiment with building a cone shaped diffuser design. I would want at least a two way design though. I may start with removing the drivers from a studio monitor and mounting them as such using the existing amps and crossovers to drive them. I have a set of Behringer B2031A's I wouldn't hesitate to experiment with. Then if it doesn't work no harm is done, just reassemble the boxes.

I wonder if there are any designs online that maybe someone has posted.

Eric

The Parts Express AMT is nice, but reading it's description, it needs to be crossed over @ 2500 Hz, so it doesn't get as low as 800 without considerable rolloff. They are extremely directional, too. Good try, though.

Scott

The great Heils i use are filtered at 1385 hz 2e order Linkwitz.
They are not directional if used as intended as dipoles.
These speakers are really very good.
Regards Jan

Hi all,

I have 4, 2031A speakers "on their Backs",
I had considered modifying the 2031A's also,
but this is much easier and provides about the same effect.

Four 2031A's are on the left side of my console for the Main (left) Chamber,
and four on the right for my Solo Chamber .

"I remember seeing a huge sample driven organ installation years ago,
and "Most of the speaker boxes were on their backs across the rear of the stage ."

My organ sounds very good now,
especially since I have installed a Lexicon MX 400,
now providing me with a very natural Hall Acoustic.

I purchased 8, 8" steel speaker grille's and mounted
one in front of each 8" drivers,
for protection from above !

My 18" high power Sub is built into the solidly reinforced bottom of my Console !

Best wishes to all, Mel

I'm tempted to experiment with building a cone shaped diffuser design. I would want at least a two way design though. I may start with removing the drivers from a studio monitor and mounting them as such using the existing amps and crossovers to drive them. I have a set of Behringer B2031A's I wouldn't hesitate to experiment with. Then if it doesn't work no harm is done, just reassemble the boxes.

I wonder if there are any designs online that maybe someone has posted.

Eric

Eric, if you are thinking about that, besides laying them on their backs as organdoc wrote, you can make the diffuser cones yourself to mount above the drivers. I thought about using basic plastic kitchen funnels, roughly the same size as the driver. Fill them with hydrocal, or even plaster, but hydrocal is much harder. The plastic funnel can be removed when it's hard and cured. The surface should be smooth and glossy. For the point, you can glue on one of those "isolation spikes" that they sell for the bottom of speakers. This way you can make several of different sizes for the different drivers. You can even stain them to match your speaker.

Jan, Thanks for the heads up on the Heil AMT. I had forgotten that they could be used as a dipole. It appears that the Dayton AMT from Parts Express can be too.

Scott

Mel, I remember your search well!
So I recall everyone suggesting everything, including Magnapans, and so on, but you had an ispiration and took you 2031s and laid them on their backs, along the floor, against the wall?

Sooo if I have this right...the normal horizontal dispersion is now being bounced off of the ceiling and the back wall towards the listening room? How does this work for horizontal spread? (O.K. it must be great since you love it!) Does it take the full 8 speakers to make it sound right, or can 2 do it as well? I ask because whatever I do, it will be with a max of 4 speakers, but probably 2, and these will double as my main stereo speakers as well.

Thanks,
Scott