New setup and routing questions

Having been a user of Hauptwerk for over 6 years, it is time for me to redo my setup. At first, I thought that I would continue to use the existing multi-purpose computer and then I decided that since the computer is several years old (but with periodic updates and upgrades) that a new machine would be indicated. My current setup is located in a very small room that was originally built as a painting studio, but over the years, it has developed into an “everything room.” When I put the 4 manual organ plus pedal board plus bench into the small space, I have to almost turn sideways to move around. I am now moving the organ into the living area of my house and into a much bigger and more appropriate space. So here is what I have done now or will do:
1. Ordered a new very powerful computer with a M.2 500 GB system drive
2. i7 5930K processor
3. 1 TB SSD for samples
4. 2 TB HDD for files
5. 64 GB of RAM

This computer will be connected to a Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 preamp by means of USB 2.0 and the MIDI out of the Classic manuals and pedal board will be connected to the MIDI in of the 18i20. From the 18i20, there will be 6 line outputs for 3 stereo pairs of speakers. I will be using 3 independent amps for these 3 stereo pairs of speakers. In addition to the 6 bookshelf speakers, I will use 2 subwoofers, each of which has its own dedicated digital amp.

In my current setup, I have a powered subwoofer and 1 pair of powered near field speakers. As is typical, the stereo signal that is routed (in Hauptwerk) to them goes to the sub and then the signals above the cutoff point of the sub go to the stereo speakers. In the new setup, none of the speakers are powered, so all have to have an amp to drive them. There is no problem is routing stereo signals to the bookshelf speakers (47Hz - 40 KHz) since each stereo pair has its own stereo preamp and amp and cover every thing above 47Hz. However, here is where I need some help in figuring out how to handle getting signals below 150 Hz (new subs do 22Hz to 150Hz) to go to the preamp, the individual sub amps, and then to the subs. I think that if I knew the frequency of each of the lower pipes of an organ, then I could route any pipe below 150 Hz to one of the two subs.

Does anyone have any experience doing something as I have described for the subs? Also, is there any information available regarding the frequency of pipes so that no pipe gets left out when the routing is done?

I would really appreciate any and all suggestions. By the way, I have already purchased everything that I have mentioned using, so I am now committed (or maybe I should be committed) to moving ahead with my plan.

I look forward to your responses,

Tom

[mdyde]

[Topic moved here.]

Hi Tom:

At first I would make it easier on yourself and just setup the subs as an Aux Mix-down group and route all the ranks to it from the main group and any other groups you may create for pipe routing design. Doing so you are letting the subs internal crossover deliver only the lower frequencies from all ranks. Most subs have a variable crossover adjuster knob so you can fine tune the frequency range the sub will sound on. The idea here is the smooth curve where the sub starts to blend in just a little with the tenor frequencies but makes it presence known on the really low ones.

Be sure to search the forum for "mutli channel routing" has there are many excellent posts that describe the next step into the pipe organ realism you are about to experience! Especially this one here that actually talks about rank routing based on like sounding pipe ranks.

http://forum.hauptwerk.com/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=14769

Danny B.

Hi Danny B.

Thanks for your reply and suggestions. However, there is one thing that I need to mention again and that is the subs do not have internal crossovers. They simply will reproduce signals from 22 Hz up to 150 Hz. Since 150 Hz is the highest frequency signal that will sound from the subs, then I don't think that I can route pipes above 150 to the subs. The subs do have LFE inputs, but I am not using a receiver/s with has a sub output in the system. The routing from Hauptwerk via MIDI goes into the Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 preamps and then out to the individual stereo amps for the bookshelf speakers. There will be 3 pairs of stereo outs and 2 individual mono sub outs from the 18i20. So for any low frequency pipe to sound through the subs, they have to be routed there by Hauptwerk. I hope my description is clear - if not please let me know and I will try to explain more clearly.

Thanks,

Tom

Ok I understand now, your subs have a fairly wide frequency range with no variable control.

I stand by my original post in that to try them as a aux mix-down configuration to compliment the bookshelf speakers. For an alternative, using the "Ranks Routed menu", try routing all the 16' pipes to a separate 'sub channel'. Later for comparison, reconfigure and send the whole pedal division to this sub channel along with any manual 16' stops. Since your subs have a wide frequency range, the pedal reeds, pedal mixture, and maybe a 4' pedal stop might work (i.e. sound just fine) with this dedicated routing.

Mathematically speaking, 8ft pitch for an open flue pipe (the first C note) is around 65 to 70 hertz. Your bookshelf speakers are rated at 47Hz on the low end so spec wise they are good to go for all your ranks 8ft and above. However, subs can add power and reproduce some of the lower overtones that may appear as you move around that last octave. Review the spec sheet and or diagram of your bookshelf speakers and see where the roll off starts. This is where the subs earn their keep; the area where the mains (bookshelf speakers) start to fade off.

Not to muddy the waters, if the subs and bookshelf speakers are designed to work together you can experiment with the bass-spilt feature in HW. The caveat here is that you miss any cross-fade where the bookshelf slowly fades off and the subs begin to pick up the work.

Fortunately with HW audio routing, redesign is just a few clicks away. Plus with your new computer hardware, complete with an SSD, building a new cache file should be quick .

Here are a few suggestions from what I did when adding new audios channel for the first time:
Play familiar tunes in straight stereo to get a feel of the new audio, just L and R channels plus a sub. This is akin to test driving a new car on a non-busy street before hitting the freeway.
Start with a small sample set like St. Anne's or one you're familiar with so you'll know right away if the overall sound is better or different. Experimenting with a small sample set allows for expeditious cache rebuilds when changing routing designs.
Finally, read past postings to see what others have done. You might stumble across someone with your same setup. Experimenting with channel routing is a fun feature all in itself. I wrote an earlier post where I built (routed) my own Trumpet en Chamade. I have since moved those speakers to the back of my studio (about 23ft away), positioned close to the ceiling to enhance the audio illusion.

Hope this helps,

Danny B.

Here's my really quick input as I'm way too busy at the moment to get too involved. I'd try the Aux Mix-down approach first. It won't remove any of the sound from the other three groups so you will still have all the pedal overtones through the front speakers. You sub can be adjusted to get the best balance and best frequency cutoff to match the normal speakers.

I'd avoid routing by ranks as they use a note number approach which will be different frequencies for different ranks (32, 16, 8, 4) and will not get you the overtones at all unless you add extra speakers on the same channel as the sub.

I use Reaper between Hauptwerk and my 18i20 interface for the most flexibility as it allows me to put matching hi-pass and lo-pass filters on channels so that the front speakers are not challenged with the task of producing low frequency signals. I could provide a sample Reaper setup that you could examine and consider adapting to your own situation.

Danny B. and John,

Thanks you very much for your very informative replays to my questions. I am not yet ready to try any of your suggestions since my computer is still being built and I am reconstructing my "console". Actually, it is a table that I built and is completely open underneath. Everything is visible, so I am going to enclose the sides and back and install toe pistons before I move things from my studio into the living area of my house. Visibility of the whole setup will be much greater in the house, so I need to do quite a lot of work on it. I will let you know how successful I was in implementing your suggestions when I am further along with the project. By the way John, I visited your website and found it very interesting. Since you have lived in Dallas, obviously you know where Irving is (my home), so it just points out how small the world really is.

Regards,

Tom

Keep in touch, Tom. Yes, I did work for a couple or trading firms right north of you in Las Colinas as well as in Dallas and Ft. Worth for about eight years. Prior to that I worked for Rockwell-Collins in Richardson but didn't maintain an actual home there as I was traveling all the time. Met Thomas of organtechnology back then at the home of an amateur radio operator up in Sherman, TX. Small world.